Off Topic European Debate Thread

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In, out, or undecided?

  • In

    Votes: 12 27.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 27 61.4%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • Total voters
    44
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banksyisourhero said:
One for you MTG..

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I'd disagree, a lot of collaboration between countries is largely beneficial. Big research projects such as cern (large hadron collider) and European space agencies require international collaboration. Leaving would alienate us and make us far weaker at stem.

As for international students, they are largely beneficial. They bring in. A lot of funding for unis
 
Michael Gove has said today he's had no power to stop known French criminals coming to the UK because of EU rules.
To me that's a crime in itself and yet another reason we need to leave.
Another bloody crime is he hasn't said it earlier.
 
RedorDead said:
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To be honest mate, the crap posted in these papers, I absolutely don't believe them. They're either complete and utter BS, or they leave out important facts that don't suit their agenda, or (most commonly), they're a significant minority of cases.

I'm torn between my decision, and a few people here who are 'Out' have put forward decent arguments, but crap like this throws no weight behind it for me.
 
BCFCRob said:
To be honest mate, the crap posted in these papers, I absolutely don't believe them. They're either complete and utter BS, or they leave out important facts that don't suit their agenda, or (most commonly), they're a significant minority of cases.

I'm torn between my decision, and a few people here who are 'Out' have put forward decent arguments, but crap like this throws no weight behind it for me.
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But Rob this is happening on a massive scale across this country,it may be crap as you call it,but it has happened.
it is costing you,me and millions more a small fortune.
 
BCFCRob said:
To be honest mate, the crap posted in these papers, I absolutely don't believe them. They're either complete and utter BS, or they leave out important facts that don't suit their agenda, or (most commonly), they're a significant minority of cases.

I'm torn between my decision, and a few people here who are 'Out' have put forward decent arguments, but crap like this throws no weight behind it for me.
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The difference is, I'm not trying to persuade either in or out vote. I'm undecided but swaying towards out. As I said to my sons and other family members that they should make their own mind up and not be swayed by what I say.
This paper article might be incorrect, but I think this happens and is the main reason I believe the human rights law has been exploited. It's a good idea in practice but it's been exploited by criminals and lawyers. To me there does not seem to be rational thought no more.
So if this particular paper article is made up or true, the sad fact is that it does happen as we all know from that hate preacher that could not be extradited due but did not have any loyalty to this country or in fact continent.
 
Red Robin said:
But Rob this is happening on a massive scale across this country,it may be crap as you call it,but it has happened.
it is costing you,me and millions more a small fortune.
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Well ignoring the fact that you probably don't have the slightest clue what the actual figure is (neither do I), if you're going to argue the financial game, the net contribution from immigrants v money taken is in the positive for the country, so we actually make a profit from this. It's the small price to pay. Not that we don't need to fix it, but we also need to stop our own scroungers just as much.

As for a 'massive scale', what exactly is a massive scale? I guarantee it's not that massive when you look at the numbers being chucked about in terms of the billions swaying in whether stay or leave.

RedorDead said:
The difference is, I'm not trying to persuade either in or out vote. I'm undecided but swaying towards out. As I said to my sons and other family members that they should make their own mind up and not be swayed by what I say.
This paper article might be incorrect, but I think this happens and is the main reason I believe the human rights law has been exploited. It's a good idea in practice but it's been exploited by criminals and lawyers. To me there does not seem to be rational thought no more.
So if this particular paper article is made up or true, the sad fact is that it does happen as we all know from that hate preacher that could not be extradited due but did not have any loyalty to this country or in fact continent.
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Fair enough, similar boat to me then, sorry if it came across overly aggressive. Just does my head in when people believe all of the tabloid crap as gospel.

I agree with you, I just don't like (or 100% believe) the source. I disagree on the hate preacher (assuming you mean Abu Hamza). Again, it's a **** situation, but if the price we have to pay to have a better humans rights system includes wasting a little bit (in the grand scheme of things) on scum like him then I'm prepared to put up with it.
 
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wizered said:
The problem is you ask remain the question how much, they won't give an answer..
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/19/how-much-do-eu-migrants-c_n_9272428.html
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I will admit it's a pretty vague subject but from what I've read it's generally considered fact that they contribute more than they take. Regardless, it's not the problem that we have migrants. It's correct that we have migrants, shutting the door completely would be disgusting. The problem is the volume.
 
Its illegal migrants that I have most issue with, they are mostly committing crime to get any money (or not paying any tax) its takes an absolute fortune and an eternity to deport them when they are caught and sometimes they appeal and eventually get left here because its taken so long to deal with them legally and its EU laws that are stopping us in the first place..

Out , Out, Out.....

I'll bet these aren't added to the 'more gain than loss' figures!!
 
banksyisourhero said:
Its illegal migrants that I have most issue with, they are mostly committing crime to get any money (or not paying any tax) its takes an absolute fortune and an eternity to deport them when they are caught and sometimes they appeal and eventually get left here because its taken so long to deal with them legally and its EU laws that are stopping us in the first place..

Out , Out, Out.....

I'll bet these aren't added to the 'more gain than loss' figures!!
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Nope of course not, but why should there be? Admittedly leaving the EU would help numbers, but illegal immigration would still happen, and still happen on a large scale.
 
BCFCRob said:
Nope of course not, but why should there be? Admittedly leaving the EU would help numbers, but illegal immigration would still happen, and still happen on a large scale.
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You missed the point... They could be swiftly and legally removed as they should be!! and when they know that and know there will be no rewards for coming here they simply won't come.. thats why they travel through France to get to us! because we're mugs.
 
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I'm going to throw something into this debate from personal knowledge.
For obvious reasons I'll be vague.
There is a huge problem with the strong link between immigration and crime; both
organised and random. In London the overwhelming majority of crime investigated
by the police involves those from R...... We hear about the NHS being overwhelmed,
but police time and energy is being drained by arresting and interviewing criminals
from one particular East European country.
 
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Biggest problem for me is not the 'illegals', and that's terrible in itself, but it's the uncontrolled EU immigrants who we have no control at all to stop.
It's madness.
 
pirate49 said:
I'm going to throw something into this debate from personal knowledge.
For obvious reasons I'll be vague.
There is a huge problem with the strong link between immigration and crime; both
organised and random. In London the overwhelming majority of crime investigated
by the police involves those from R...... We hear about the NHS being overwhelmed,
but police time and energy is being drained by arresting and interviewing criminals
from one particular East European country.
Click to expand...

I have a very good friend in the force behind the scenes stuff,you are right it is a epidemic that is getting worse every year,the biggest problem being eastern europeans.
 
The trouble is that the criminal justice system is woefully underfunded. I know a lot of people in the system particularly cps and the stories are absolutely abysmal. Hideously underfunded
 
banksyisourhero said:
You missed the point... They could be swiftly and legally removed as they should be!! and when they know that and know there will be no rewards for coming here they simply won't come.. thats why they travel through France to get to us! because we're mugs.
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But is it actually the EU that is preventing us from swiftly removing them? Genuine question.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree on the final bit. We're one of the most wealthy countries in the world, with one of the most, if not the most accessible language in the world. EU or not, people are still going to try to come here in my opinion. I agree being out of the EU might lessen the numbers somewhat, but let's face it it's going to be significant.

I'd imagine illegal immigrants try to come here primarily to find some way of setting up work rather than claiming benefits and the rest of it. Being in or out of the EU doesn't change that.
 
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