Off Topic European Debate Thread

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In, out, or undecided?

  • In

    Votes: 12 27.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 27 61.4%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • Total voters
    44
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I think it's interesting that there appears to be a division of opinion between the younger (up to 25 years old) and the older (everyone else) opening up.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the younger generation seem more positive towards the EU and just don't care about handing over power. The loss of sovereignty doesn't phase them - most don't know (or care) what it is.
What the youngsters care about is jobs and rights, which they think the full EU deal will provide (and Corbyn perhaps).

We 'oldies' have been there and done it. I'm fortunate not to have lived through a time when our sovereignty was seriously under threat, but I can remember the Falklands war and all the 'friendly' countries who abstained when we asked for support.

I too care about jobs and rights, but I am NOT convinced that handing power over to an unelected authority based in Brussels will give it to us.
 
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BCFCRob said:
Not true. We have an absolute ****load of space. Less than 1% of the entire country is built on.

Community space and resources of course is a different matter.
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Not read the rest of the thread past this point so apologies if it's already been explained. But to put it into simple terms we do have lots of unused space in this country, but that does not mean it's habitual.
The problems we are experiencing the past few years with flooding is because of buildings going on elsewhere. In this country we've got a lot of trees and a ****e load of rain. Now a oak tree can soak up to something like 50 gallons water per day. So when they are building the trees removed was soaking up to x amount of rain water preventing it going into rivers. And then domino effect on weakened water courses and flooding.
We've also got eroding sea cliffs and reducing the land mass to built upon. Along with that we've got mountains etc.
Plus the free lands of the country side are people's land for farming etc. So it's not free land to built on.
As I said apologies if it's already been said. But that's some reasons why we've got a lot of free land mass.
 
banksyisourhero said:
I copied and pasted that from "The myths about leaving" but that will be equally as biased as 'stay' propaganda.

The truth is for me..

If it was purely a financial argument, I would probably stay.. but I would still think there a self serving bunch of hypocrites who are only looking after themselves and their cohorts, they have their snouts in the gravy train we are paying for and don't want to lose that. Cameron has probably been promised a nice little number at some point in the future. But..

I want to be able to vote out our immediate leaders if I wish, isn't that what democracy is?

I want to be able to control our own borders, not be told by faceless bureaucrats who we can and can't tell to leave or stay!

Its that simple for me..

In all honesty I don't know what will happen if we leave, but it can't be as bad as staying surely.. and the people of Calais will love us for it for one!
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Good post <applause>
 
Mind the gap! said:
Leaving won't significantly decrease immigration levels.

Any free-trade agreement with the Eu requires open door immigration and that Eu laws are followed
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First point. Why not? Unless new entry policies are designed not too.

Second point. Free trade refers to deregulation of markets, tariffs, quotas etc, it is not dependant on immigration. The EU and its member states already has agreements with Countries outside of the EU where there is no open door to migrants.
 
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Mind the gap! said:
There will be more people trying to sneak in illegally if we leave as changing border controls won't stop people trying to get in.

Also with border controls the thought of the miserable ****ers getting more miserable is unbearable
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First point, they won't come here if their not entitled to benefits as there is nothing in it for them..

Second point.. I don't know what this means??
 
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banksyisourhero said:
First point, they won't come here if their not entitled to benefits as there is notion in it for them..

Second point.. I don't know what this means??
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They aren't coming over here for benefits. You can't get benefits if you're an illegal immigrant.

A large proportion of them are asylum seekers. Asylum seekers get pretty much **** all.

It's pretty inhumane to turn away legitimate refugees
 
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Cliftonville said:
First point. Why not? Unless new entry policies are designed not too.

Second point. Free trade refers to deregulation of markets, tariffs, quotas etc, it is not dependant on immigration. The EU and its member states already has agreements with Countries outside of the EU where there is no open door to migrants.
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The best Eu trading agreement involves freedom of movement such as Norway and Switzerland.

Other countries don't have the Eu as a main trade partner and studies show that other agreements would be even more costly to the economy
 
Mind the gap! said:
They aren't coming over here for benefits. You can't get benefits if you're an illegal immigrant.

A large proportion of them are asylum seekers. Asylum seekers get pretty much **** all.
Click to expand...

If they become Asylum seekers from previously being illegal immigrants they are granted benefits.. hardly any illegal immigrants are sent back!

We have immigrants in London (previously illegal) claiming housing benefits of thousands per month openly preaching hatred towards our country and people, yet our own NHS could not fund a paltry £50k for Oskar Pyecroft to walk..

Thats my idea of inhumane mate.
 
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Mind the gap! said:
The best Eu trading agreement involves freedom of movement such as Norway and Switzerland.

Other countries don't have the Eu as a main trade partner and studies show that other agreements would be even more costly to the economy
Click to expand...


Oh its the 'best' ones now, where as before it was the only ones?

You need to make your mind up!

What studies??? Show us a link..
 
Even though I can't vote it hurts me every time I return to my birth country and see how it has capitulated to European rules and mismanagement to the point of total disbelief. I would vote NO and would welcome the day when the U.K. finally takes back what has been given away through the years of kotowing to others and having to feel the need for constant apologies to the human rights idiots who wouldn't know the true meaning of the word if it jumped up and bit them in their politically correct arses.

The U.K has been taken to the cleaners by various politicians over the years and it's time for someone to stand up and be counted and that person is YOU. The waste of society should stay away from the shores of the green and pleasant land unless they are prepared to accept the rules of entry that should be clearly posted on the entry door and if you can't meet them, and abide by them, then my suggestion is to vanish back to the promised land from which you came for a supposed better life.
 
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invermeremike said:
Even though I can't vote it hurts me every time I return to my birth country and see how it has capitulated to European rules and mismanagement to the point of total disbelief. I would vote NO and would welcome the day when the U.K. finally takes back what has been given away through the years of kotowing to others and having to feel the need for constant apologies to the human rights idiots who wouldn't know the true meaning of the word if it jumped up and bit them in their politically correct arses.

The U.K has been taken to the cleaners by various politicians over the years and it's time for someone to stand up and be counted and that person is YOU. The waste of society should stay away from the shores of the green and pleasant land unless they are prepared to accept the rules of entry that should be clearly posted on the entry door and if you can't meet them, and abide by them, then my suggestion is to vanish back to the promised land from which you came for a supposed better life.
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Spot on Mike,where you been :grin:
 
Mind the gap! said:
The best Eu trading agreement involves freedom of movement such as Norway and Switzerland.

Other countries don't have the Eu as a main trade partner and studies show that other agreements would be even more costly to the economy
Click to expand...

The best? Why? What is it you are referring to?

What studies?

You mentioned free trade agreements. Free indicates arrangements free from regulation. Any arrangement that necessitates taking in hundreds of thousands of immigrants a year in turn has a cost of billions.

You failed to explain how leaving the EU will not reduce immigration. Why is this?
 
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banksyisourhero said:
If they become Asylum seekers from previously being illegal immigrants they are granted benefits.. hardly any illegal immigrants are sent back!

We have immigrants in London (previously illegal) claiming housing benefits of thousands per month openly preaching hatred towards our country and people, yet our own NHS could not fund a paltry £50k for Oskar Pyecroft to walk..

Thats my idea of inhumane mate.
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So you have said that only asylum seekers get benefits (illegally entering) asylum seekers get **** all in money and benefits.

I think that saying that refugees should not get help is pretty ****ty tbh
 
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