Show the membership scheme the red card!

[Obadiah]

If the object was to get mass TV coverage then a sea of red cards in the south, east and north stands would get more coverage and comment than 3,000 red cards at Derby. As you say OLM that was a decision the Trust made.

 

[dennisboothstash]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not answering for the Trust, this is just my opinion:

The point of the red card protest was to show the owners the widespread dissatisfaction with the new membership scheme. This has been done very successfully, but the point has been made and continuing with it is not going to get the point over to them any more than has been done already (in fact, it's likely that progressively people will get bored and less people will bother).

The point of doing it once more at Derby, is that it's a televised game that's likely to get big viewing figures and it gets the message out to a wider audience (you could claim that it would make more of an impact done again at the home game, but I'm not sure that Sky will give it much airtime if they've already done it on the Saturday).

There was never much of a realistic chance of successfully pulling off a similar protest at Wembley and we might not even get there, so it had to stop somewhere and I think it's a perfectly reasonable decision to do it on Saturday and then move on to other things.

Thanks for that

I don't entirely agree, but I can certainly follow the logic.

Right everyone, you can get back to squabbling again now. I might be wrong but I think Dutch was waiting to mention something about the East stand evictions?

 

[Fez]

It's the forcibly moving people that is the issue.

If we don't get promoted any owner would have to seriously look at closing some part of the ground - that is just a simple, sensible business economy. Which part of the ground is important and I agree that upper west is just daft, as is moving away fans there. But it still does not change the fact that folk will have to move, not by choice, but by necessity - I have seen it at a number of clubs and folk get over it, it's not great but needs must. I've seen enough banter on here about singing this, that and the other to come to the conclusion that if folk want to sing they will, if they don't, they won't. There have been times when the noise has been great, but that has always been performance driven, so there'e a big clue for the owners!

Yes, there should be a decent way of handling all of this, but our club handles nothing in a decent manner, do they, and protesters can only deal with what they are given? If folk really cannot sit somewhere else to watch their football then I can't help but think their bond to the club is not that strong - nothing wrong with that, but it should be accepted as it is.

As I said to Dutch, a while back, this type of 'seat and neighbour allegiance' passed me by, as it did so many of my acquaintance, as it doesn't motivate everyone to such an extreme degree - scheme sign-ups will testify to that; we meet before and after, go in, watch the game, meet at half-time, if able, and enjoy the event. I think there are far more like me, to be honest.

Concessions are the same, not everyone is disgusted by them being lost, some have celebrated it (and I'm not picking out Happy Tiger, as there were others), but concessions are what the media have picked up on and protests need as much support as they can get - that last seat move never really gained any momentum in the way of protest, except a few board posts and folk voting with their feet; time was short, but it is now, too. Scarb's argument about concessions loss making any sort of seat move too expensive is the strongest point of all, it's equivalent to a ban.

 

[originallambrettaman]

If we don't get promoted any owner would have to seriously look at closing some part of the ground - that is just a simple, sensible business economy.

Sorry Fez, but that's bollocks.

The sensible business approach would be to fill those seats, not to close a stand because you've managed to empty them.

 

[dennisboothstash]

If we don't get promoted any owner would have to seriously look at closing some part of the ground - that is just a simple, sensible business economy. Which part of the ground is important and I agree that upper west is just daft, as is moving away fans there. But it still does not change the fact that folk will have to move, not by choice, but by necessity - I have seen it at a number of clubs and folk get over it, it's not great but needs must. I've seen enough banter on here about singing this, that and the other to come to the conclusion that if folk want to sing they will, if they don't, they won't. There have been times when the noise has been great, but that has always been performance driven, so there'e a big clue for the owners!

Yes, there should be a decent way of handling all of this, but our club handles nothing in a decent manner, do they, and protesters can only deal with what they are given? If folk really cannot sit somewhere else to watch their football then I can't help but think their bond to the club is not that strong - nothing wrong with that, but it should be accepted as it is.

As I said to Dutch, a while back, this type of 'seat and neighbour allegiance' passed me by, as it did so many of my acquaintance, as it doesn't motivate everyone to such an extreme degree - scheme sign-ups will testify to that; we meet before and after, go in, watch the game, meet at half-time, if able, and enjoy the event. I think there are far more like me, to be honest.

Concessions are the same, not everyone is disgusted by them being lost, some have celebrated it (and I'm not picking out Happy Tiger, as there were others), but concessions are what the media have picked up on and protests need as much support as they can get - that last seat move never really gained any momentum in the way of protest, except a few board posts and folk voting with their feet; time was short, but it is now, too. Scarb's argument about concessions loss making any sort of seat move too expensive is the strongest point of all, it's equivalent to a ban.

I can't agree
If the Upper West was 80% empty then personally I think they should give enough free tickets to schools to fill it.

 

[neverdullinhull]

I can't agree
If the Upper West was 80% empty then personally I think they should give enough free tickets to schools to fill it.

I think frequent free tickets for organised school and youth groups in Hull, East Riding and Barton areas would be a good way to mitigate loss of young fans due to membership costs.

 

[Barchullona]

If we don't get promoted any owner would have to seriously look at closing some part of the ground - that is just a simple, sensible business economy. Which part of the ground is important and I agree that upper west is just daft, as is moving away fans there. But it still does not change the fact that folk will have to move, not by choice, but by necessity - I have seen it at a number of clubs and folk get over it, it's not great but needs must. I've seen enough banter on here about singing this, that and the other to come to the conclusion that if folk want to sing they will, if they don't, they won't. There have been times when the noise has been great, but that has always been performance driven, so there'e a big clue for the owners!

Yes, there should be a decent way of handling all of this, but our club handles nothing in a decent manner, do they, and protesters can only deal with what they are given? If folk really cannot sit somewhere else to watch their football then I can't help but think their bond to the club is not that strong - nothing wrong with that, but it should be accepted as it is.

As I said to Dutch, a while back, this type of 'seat and neighbour allegiance' passed me by, as it did so many of my acquaintance, as it doesn't motivate everyone to such an extreme degree - scheme sign-ups will testify to that; we meet before and after, go in, watch the game, meet at half-time, if able, and enjoy the event. I think there are far more like me, to be honest.

Concessions are the same, not everyone is disgusted by them being lost, some have celebrated it (and I'm not picking out Happy Tiger, as there were others), but concessions are what the media have picked up on and protests need as much support as they can get - that last seat move never really gained any momentum in the way of protest, except a few board posts and folk voting with their feet; time was short, but it is now, too. Scarb's argument about concessions loss making any sort of seat move too expensive is the strongest point of all, it's equivalent to a ban.

Which other clubs have you seen a whole stand moved by necessity? Other than maybe during redevelopment? Or, like Leeds, a way of putting away fans in an expensive part of the ground?
As for concessions, the loss of an OAP one wouldn't bother a lot of OAPs like myself, old age pension, company pension, no mortgage. In fact a lot, like myself, have more disposable money than their kids after bills are paid. However that is not the case for OAPs without a company pension who may still have a mortgage or be paying rent. And, most importantly of course the people with families and all the cost that entails on top of mortgage/rent are the ones supposed to find the loss of concessions for kids and a big price hike or moving seats something acceptable. Great choice, carry on going and tell the kids you can't afford to take them anymore. Can see a few being told by their better halves that the best thing would be to stop going altogether and spend the money on family outings on a weekend.

 

[Fez]

Sorry Fez, but that's bollocks.

The sensible business approach would be to fill those seats, not to close a stand because you've managed to empty them.

If we're not promoted then attendance will plummet and there is only so much freebie you can offer before you devalue those tickets the faithful buy. I have not said anything about closing stands, there are other ways, although if paid attendance gets low enough the a stand might be an option. Some have spoken of a Champiinship attendance of 12000 being optimistic, so are you really saying it is commercially viable that those 12000 should subsidise a similar number to free or massively reduced seats. Occasional one off games are fine, but to do it routinely would soon get a response from those paying full pops. It's not bollocks, it's just realistic.

 

[GLP]

If we're not promoted then attendance will plummet and there is only so much freebie you can offer before you devalue those tickets the faithful buy. I have not said anything about closing stands, there are other ways, although if paid attendance gets low enough the a stand might be an option. Some have spoken of a Champiinship attendance of 12000 being optimistic, so are you really saying it is commercially viable that those 12000 should subsidise a similar number to free or massively reduced seats. Occasional one off games are fine, but to do it routinely would soon get a response from those paying full pops. It's not bollocks, it's just realistic.

I think a more pertinent question is to ask why attendances have dropped?

 

[Fez]

Which other clubs have you seen a whole stand moved by necessity? Other than maybe during redevelopment? Or, like Leeds, a way of putting away fans in an expensive part of the ground?
As for concessions, the loss of an OAP one wouldn't bother a lot of OAPs like myself, old age pension, company pension, no mortgage. In fact a lot, like myself, have more disposable money than their kids after bills are paid. However that is not the case for OAPs without a company pension who may still have a mortgage or be paying rent. And, most importantly of course the people with families and all the cost that entails on top of mortgage/rent are the ones supposed to find the loss of concessions for kids and a big price hike or moving seats something acceptable. Great choice, carry on going and tell the kids you can't afford to take them anymore. Can see a few being told by their better halves that the best thing would be to stop going altogether and spend the money on family outings on a weekend.

What the **** are you on about? Where have I said I'd seen whole stands moved?
Seems to me we agre on concessions, so what's that all about?

 

[Barchullona]

I think a more pertinent question is to ask why attendances have dropped?

Because we continue to have a lousy, irrelevant name instead of an exciting, dynamic one which would attract worldwide attention?
Or maybe the cauldron like atmosphere is too much for some to take?

 

[Fez]

I can't agree
If the Upper West was 80% empty then personally I think they should give enough free tickets to schools to fill it.

How many does Upper west seat? Are you assuming the rest of the ground is chocker? If not what if that is half full, or less? Where does it stop?

 

[originallambrettaman]

If we're not promoted then attendance will plummet and there is only so much freebie you can offer before you devalue those tickets the faithful buy. I have not said anything about closing stands, there are other ways, although if paid attendance gets low enough the a stand might be an option. Some have spoken of a Champiinship attendance of 12000 being optimistic, so are you really saying it is commercially viable that those 12000 should subsidise a similar number to free or massively reduced seats. Occasional one off games are fine, but to do it routinely would soon get a response from those paying full pops. It's not bollocks, it's just realistic.

You said 'any owner would have to seriously look at closing some part of the ground', which is untrue.

Any owner with half a brain would scrap the current scheme and look to get back all of those recently alienated, there is no business case for closing a stand, other than the one created by the actions of the current business owner, which could be very easily reversed.

 

[Barchullona]

What the **** are you on about? Where have I said I'd seen whole stands moved?
Seems to me we agre on concessions, so what's that all about?

" Which part of the ground is important and I agree that upper west is just daft, as is moving away fans there. But it still does not change the fact that folk will have to move, not by choice, but by necessity - I have seen it at a number of clubs and folk get over it, it's not great but needs"

Well, the Upper West is a whole stand, or section of a stand. So, which grounds, and you say you have seen a number, you seen folk have to move by necessity?

 

[dennisboothstash]

How many does Upper west seat? Are you assuming the rest of the ground is chocker? If not what if that is half full, or less? Where does it stop?

Ok I was being over simplistic
My main point was that I think they should try to fill the seats first rather than give up and close a stand

 

[Fez]

I think a more pertinent question is to ask why attendances have dropped?

Of course it is, but if the answer you get has no immediate solution to it then you need a Plan B. It's a business with short timescales for readjustment and things don't get sorted by banter on forums.

Why do you think attendances have dropped?

 

[Newland Tiger]

The club has pissed off and driven away so many supporters that we now have to think about closing part of the ground in the Championship ?

This is just so ****ing ridiculous

 

[Barchullona]

You said 'any owner would have to seriously look at closing some part of the ground', which is untrue.

Any owner with half a brain would scrap the current scheme and look to get back all of those recently alienated, there is no business case for closing a stand, other than the one created by the actions of the current business owner, which could be very easily reversed.

You can bet that AP would not have this happen. He is enough of a realist to know he couldn't argue with the SMC shutting stands for rugby due to attendances but he would think if we could get bigger crowds in lower divisions it is obvious the fan base is there to get those crowds in a higher division, all it needs is to stop pissing people off, make them feel important and pitch the prices right.

 

[GLP]

Of course it is, but if the answer you get has no immediate solution to it then you need a Plan B. It's a business with short timescales for readjustment and things don't get sorted by banter on forums.

Why do you think attendances have dropped?

Crap owners, uneccessary price hikes, name change fiasco are but a few. The damage caused by our current steward will take years to rectify.

We all wait patiently for the olive branch to appear, unfortunately it doesn't seem forthcoming. This is all their own making.

 

[DMD]

Unless we're all missing something, there seems to be no real business case for the scheme and closing the west stand/putting away fans there, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

That being the case, what are the motives behind it all?

Is it just incompetence, malevalence, what?