Off Topic European Debate Thread

Sorry Rob. Not true, its an urban myth..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

 

Fair enough, that makes both myself and RR wrong then. 12% is still leaving a ****load of space left. But I know I'm being pedantic, given that it's not 'space' that's the issue.

 

Yes, but we are talking a City the size of Leicester per year (at current rates without an increase)

Imagine 10 years time.

I know 10 years seems an eternity to young people but believe me its a blink of an eye!

Believe or not as this has somewhat turned in to a younger v older debate.. my only concern is for my kids and their kids. coutryside should be protected.. remember we will need to feed all these people and will require land to do that!

 

No I know, I completely agree on the first section and I have been turned somewhat by the immigration debate. The thing is that is the only big plus in the leave campaign for me in all honesty. I was leaning closer to in maybe a week or two ago but I'm not sure where I stand now to be honest.

 

Leaving won't significantly decrease immigration levels.

Any free-trade agreement with the Eu requires open door immigration and that Eu laws are followed

 

You don't listen do you!

 

Well the statement is true, I can guarantee that we will not be able to have a free trade agreement with the Eu without having the same immigration agreement.

 

Head of bank of England has today Said that leaving will probably cause another recession and that unemployment rising and the pound falling are almost certain.

 

Will not happen,doors will opened elsewhere by leaving the eu.

 

Such as?

 

And how would leaving put us in a better trading position, especially considering that in negotiation, the bigger you are the better deal you get

 

I will say it again..

We will not enter in to a trade agreement that sees us having to remain under EU immigrations rules if we have voted to leave due to those very same rules.. this is very simple to understand even for an 'academic'.

 

Thats what you said!

This is what he actually said (in real life)

Mark Carney, the Bank's governor, warned that the risks of leaving "could possibly include a technical recession".

Not "probably" and not "almost certain"

 

Norway and Switzerland have to do it.

Then I guess we won't have a trade agreement then and British business will suffer.

There is not a chance that the Eu will allow us to have a decent trade agreement without an immigration agreement

 

-We have very little say within the EU, and would have far more leverage outside EU as an independent sovereign nation and the world’s 5th largest economy.

-The UK currently has only 8.4% of voting power ‘say’ in the EU, and the Lisbon Treaty ensured the loss of Britain’s veto in many more policy areas.

-Britain’s 73 MEPs are a minority within the 751 in the European Parliament.

-With further enlargement (Croatia, Turkey’s 79 million citizens), British influence would be further watered down.

-As for continuing contributions by an independent Britain, Swiss and Norwegian examples show that the UK would achieve substantial net savings.

 

In fairness banksy your first 3 points above all say the same thing, and in answer to the fourth, Croatia and Turkey won't be granted many seats/votes, so it won't be watered down significantly, but I do see your point.

Oh dear.... I'm getting my arm twisted more and more each day here.

 

I copied and pasted that from "The myths about leaving" but that will be equally as biased as 'stay' propaganda.

The truth is for me..

If it was purely a financial argument, I would probably stay.. but I would still think there a self serving bunch of hypocrites who are only looking after themselves and their cohorts, they have their snouts in the gravy train we are paying for and don't want to lose that. Cameron has probably been promised a nice little number at some point in the future. But..

I want to be able to vote out our immediate leaders if I wish, isn't that what democracy is?

I want to be able to control our own borders, not be told by faceless bureaucrats who we can and can't tell to leave or stay!

Its that simple for me..

In all honesty I don't know what will happen if we leave, but it can't be as bad as staying surely.. and the people of Calais will love us for it for one!

 

There will be more people trying to sneak in illegally if we leave as changing border controls won't stop people trying to get in.

Also with border controls the thought of the miserable ****ers getting more miserable is unbearable