Celtic songbook

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anportmorbhoy said:
Because politicians (and judges) are stupid. Rangers fans are going to complain about everything we do (rightly or wrongly)

Im not saying i know for a fact we will be in trouble for it - we might not....but why take the risk when we dont need to?
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anportmorbhoy - Ok, sticking to the issue that Celtic FC could be in trouble because a particular section of fans at their games sing songs about the IRA. I would contend that there is no way that Celtic FC could be held legally responsible for these fans singing these particular songs. I also believe that attempting to proscribe these particular songs would be a legal nightmare and a task which, if attempted, will prove impossible to achieve.

The fact that some Rangers fans are going to complain about everything we do, is certainly no basis for not doing something.

The notion that if ever someone declares that they are offended by another's actions/behaviour (no matter what or how trivial that action/behaviour may be) then that action/behaviour must cease, is an absolute nonsense -and unfortunately it would appear that the widespread propagation of this notion is becoming more prevalent in some societies. It would also appear that some people are looking to find offence at every turn in order to exploit this notion. Perhaps, therefore, it is time to make a stand, and who better to lead the way than Celtic FC as the club authorities are coming under pressure to conform to the Establishment's view of things. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not making any advocation here, one way or the other, as to the singing of these particular songs - I am happy to leave it up to the club authorities to decide what they regard as truly offensive. However, if it is an irrefutable fact (and I am not yet convinced that it is) that Celtic FC seriously consider the songs offensive then I come back to my original view that the authorities of the club should discuss the matter with the particular group of 'offenders' to explain their reasoning and try to reach agreement on the issue. If such dialogue fails to achieve a satisfactory outcome for the club then it is up to the club to decide what to do about it.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
anportmorbhoy - Ok, sticking to the issue that Celtic FC could be in trouble because a particular section of fans at their games sing songs about the IRA. I would contend that there is no way that Celtic FC could be held legally responsible for these fans singing these particular songs. I also believe that attempting to proscribe these particular songs would be a legal nightmare and a task which, if attempted, will prove impossible to achieve.

The fact that some Rangers fans are going to complain about everything we do, is certainly no basis for not doing something.

The notion that if ever someone declares that they are offended by another's actions/behaviour (no matter what or how trivial that action/behaviour may be) then that action/behaviour must cease, is an absolute nonsense -and unfortunately it would appear that the widespread propagation of this notion is becoming more prevalent in some societies. It would also appear that some people are looking to find offence at every turn in order to exploit this notion. Perhaps, therefore, it is time to make a stand, and who better to lead the way than Celtic FC as the club authorities are coming under pressure to conform to the Establishment's view of things. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not making any advocation here, one way or the other, as to the singing of these particular songs - I am happy to leave it up to the club authorities to decide what they regard as truly offensive. However, if it is an irrefutable fact (and I am not yet convinced that it is) that Celtic FC seriously consider the songs offensive then I come back to my original view that the authorities of the club should discuss the matter with the particular group of 'offenders' to explain their reasoning and try to reach agreement on the issue. If such dialogue fails to achieve a satisfactory outcome for the club then it is up to the club to decide what to do about it.
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But why? Why do you need to sing about politics at the football? Because its always been that way? Ive heard others use that excuse too mind

What benefit does singing about political history have towards a football team. Forget not the pimary reason you are there is surely for the football?
 
anportmorbhoy said:
But why? Why do you need to sing about politics at the football? Because its always been that way? Ive heard others use that excuse too mind

What benefit does singing about political history have towards a football team. Forget not the pimary reason you are there is surely for the football?
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I don't sing these songs. I also don't see a 'need' for them to be sung. I don't believe anyone is singing them for 'political benefit'. I do believe they are more to do with a cultural background and about making noise and creating atmosphere than anything else. Using your logic, one could argue that no singing should take place at all at a football match as we are there for the football - what sort of atmosphere would that create?
 
It's supposed to be about "the football", what kind of stadium would Parkhead be if every fan of the club decided to air his or her political beliefs inside the ground?

We could all turn up with soapboxes and start preaching or a Bhuddist monk could pour petrol over himself in the centre circle and then set himself alight.

Great half time entertainment i'm sure.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
I don't sing these songs. I also don't see a 'need' for them to be sung. I don't believe anyone is singing them for 'political benefit'. I do believe they are more to do with a cultural background and about making noise and creating atmosphere than anything else. Using your logic, one could argue that no singing should take place at all at a football match as we are there for the football - what sort of atmosphere would that create?
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As The Admiral has already asked, which "cultural background" are people celebrating when they sing "Ooh ahh up the Ra"?
 
EspaniaCelt said:
Dev., read our previous exchange on this - as I'm sure you well know the 'Irish' connection to the club both in the past and currently.
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Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
Hope you die in your sleep I pray
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
With a bullet from the IRA

Is that "Cultural" too?

Don't be so naive mate.
 
DevAdvocate said:
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
Hope you die in your sleep I pray
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
With a bullet from the IRA

Is that "Cultural" too?

Don't be so naive mate.
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My grandad (who's Irish and voted once) had a ****e holiday in spain once so yes it is!
 
DevAdvocate said:
It's supposed to be about "the football", what kind of stadium would Parkhead be if every fan of the club decided to air his or her political beliefs inside the ground?

We could all turn up with soapboxes and start preaching or a Bhuddist monk could pour petrol over himself in the centre circle and then set himself alight.

Great half time entertainment i'm sure.
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Dev - I think you are being a bit disingenuous with these comments - I seriously do not believe the songs are sung to air political beliefs as such (for a start I think they would need to be more articulate to be be understood properly!) Again, as you must well know very well, they stem from an Irish cultural background and whether you or I disagree with them or otherwise, this section of the fans would appear to have links with that Irish background. I don't think there is another section of fans in the ground that can compete with the atmosphere this section creates. Are you prepared to start up singing that will have the whole ground drown this section out?
 
DevAdvocate said:
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
Hope you die in your sleep I pray
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
With a bullet from the IRA

Is that "Cultural" too?

Don't be so naive mate.
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Do you see what you have done here? You have just proved that there is not a political message or benefit being attempted by such songs and the one you have just quoted is actually not about the IRA - it is quite obviously an attack on Nacho Nova - (an entirely different topic!!!!!)

And, I did not say the songs were ''cultural' I said they were more to do with a 'cultural background' - a clear distinction. (Choosing a selective word or phrase out of context which distorts what is being said overall does not help reasoned discussion.)
 
EspaniaCelt said:
Dev - I think you are being a bit disingenuous with these comments - I seriously do not believe the songs are sung to air political beliefs as such (for a start I think they would need to be more articulate to be be understood properly!) Again, as you must well know very well, they stem from an Irish cultural background and whether you or I disagree with them or otherwise, this section of the fans would appear to have links with that Irish background. I don't think there is another section of fans in the ground that can compete with the atmosphere this section creates. Are you prepared to start up singing that will have the whole ground drown this section out?
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Im from Ireland - I enjoy my cultural heritage. A big reason i support Celtic is beacuse of the huge influence of my countrymen and their love of the club

But i dont need to sing about politics non the less

I like some of the songs. I have many of them that are sung on my Ipod.

BUt i still dont see why they need to be sung at a game of football. The green brigade themselves have many good FOOTBALL songs.

If they want a political protest then why cant they do it before or after a game? and enjoy the game. I think they are a breath of fresh air to be honest but dont see why they have to tell us they love the ira. Id like them whether they do or they do not
 
DevAdvocate said:
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
Hope you die in your sleep I pray
Hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo
With a bullet from the IRA

Is that "Cultural" too?

Don't be so naive mate.
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Pointless song, sang only with the intent to offend.

I think we can probably reach an accord on that and chanting PIRA fairly easily.
It probably falls foul of present legislation as well.
It is a different matter to the singing of rebel songs.

I don't think we'll fall out over it as you state your case well, I just happen to disagree.
I have written a blog for another site in response to Phil. whether they publish it or not is their business and I'll not take any offence. I don't want to preclude anybody from the Celtic family, nor do I put myself forward as the arbiter of who is and isn't a "Tim", I am happy that there is room for this discussion.
 
anportmorbhoy said:
Im from Ireland - I enjoy my cultural heritage. A big reason i support Celtic is beacuse of the huge influence of my countrymen and their love of the club

But i dont need to sing about politics non the less

I like some of the songs. I have many of them that are sung on my Ipod.

BUt i still dont see why they need to be sung at a game of football. The green brigade themselves have many good FOOTBALL songs.

If they want a political protest then why cant they do it before or after a game? and enjoy the game. I think they are a breath of fresh air to be honest but dont see why they have to tell us they love the ira. Id like them whether they do or they do not
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I tend to agree with you but I think this section of fans come as a package. The songs they sing are their choice and I don't think they are going to be dictated to in respect of what they chose to sing. However, they may (or may not of course!) respond to direct dialogue with the club's authorities.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
I tend to agree with you but I think this section of fans come as a package. The songs they sing are their choice and I don't think they are going to be dictated to in respect of what they chose to sing. However, they may (or may not of course!) respond to direct dialogue with the club's authorities.
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So why should the club enter into discussions?

I have already said that the GB don't represent anyone but themselves, they have no mandate to speak for the Celtic fans and I think perhaps you are overestimating their numbers and misreading their agenda.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
I tend to agree with you but I think this section of fans come as a package. The songs they sing are their choice and I don't think they are going to be dictated to in respect of what they chose to sing. However, they may (or may not of course!) respond to direct dialogue with the club's authorities.
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I could be wrong but the majority of members of the green brigade seem to have scottish accents. Now im not slating them for being proud of their irish heritage - indeed im all for it. But why do they feel the need to proclaim their political stance at a game of football? why does anyone? Thats my feelings on it. Im not saying they are wrong, im not saying im right - i just dont see the need is all
 
anportmorbhoy said:
I could be wrong but the majority of members of the green brigade seem to have scottish accents. Now im not slating them for being proud of their irish heritage - indeed im all for it. But why do they feel the need to proclaim their political stance at a game of football? why does anyone? Thats my feelings on it. Im not saying they are wrong, im not saying im right - i just dont see the need is all
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The Green brigade number a couple of hundred fans at most (that's me being generous), almost all of them are Scots and almost all of them are teenagers- who have in all likelyhood never even been to Ireland.

That's why they are known as "Plastics". I have no problem with them on the whole, but they need to know their place.
 
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