So what's your source? And what about Neill Lennon and Jock Stein to name but 2, are they wrong in calling for fans to stop singing about the IRA?
Dev you can't lock people up because you disagree with them use the laws we have, dont create crimes because some people will be upset
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations Try this link Lenny and Jock have as much right to ask them to stop as they have to ignore them It's the fans who make the club not a corporate manifesto Fans should choose not to sing songs, not be forced So why do they sing them and what will make them give it up
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations Try this link Lenny and Jock have as much right to ask them to stop as they have to ignore them It's the fans who make the club not a corporate manifesto Fans should choose not to sing songs, not be forced So why do they sing them and what will make them give it up
it should not be illegal to sing about the IRA - i agree with this. Indeed i cant see how a law could be passed to that effect However its a football ground Fact is if UK or European fans hear IRA in our songs they wrongly assume we are praising terrorists. Like it or loathe it thats their first instinct. and in the UK i can see why some can be offended - even though the IRA we sing about is not that they think We have plenty of football songs - so lets stick to those and not risk being (wrongly) considered at rangers fans level
Well said Anp, we have plenty of non political songs, let's sing them instead of giving others rotten fruit to pelt us with
Dev - I'm sorry but your generalization of the views held by the majority of Scottish fans is mind-boggling to say the least. Just because they don't join in the songs does not mean they have no interest. I don't sing the songs and don't want to but that does not mean I have no interest (I may well have no interest but that conclusion cannot be reached by the fact that I don't sing them). However, I totally accept that the majority of fans go to the games to watch football. As for people seeing the IRA as terrorists - yes many do...and many don't. Given that, that organization's leaders are now in Government and in fact sharing substantial control within it, as mandated by a substantial number of the people of Northern Ireland, does that not lend some legitimacy to what they saw as their 'struggle against oppression'? I assure you that I say this purely from an objective observer's point of view. I don't have the answers but I do think that you have over-simplified a very complicated situation and with respect, the view you expressed does appear somewhat blinkered - however, I respect it as it as being your perspective on the matter. I can only re-iterate my view that 'the majority' viewpoint does not make an issue right or wrong - it is simply their perspective on it, for whatever reason. At the end of the day if the situation is that a section of Celtic supporters are singing songs that Celtic FC deem inappropriate then surely direct dialogue to reach agreement and compromise is the best way to resolve it for all concerned.
Dev Advocate 2 managers in 45 years is not resounding support for your argument, I think you will find Celtic had 10 or more managers in those 45 years from Jock to Neil. If the Manager had such a problem as you think why id he go over specially and applaud the green brigade after the last league game last season. Also almost every time a Celtic player scores for Celtic why do the players mostly head for the green brigade. Dev o/k say the green brigade are stopped, how do you intend replacing them. Will you take responsibility to organise the singing of Celtic songs or will we sit as if we are in a wake house. I know who that will suit, the morons who bellow abuse at individual Celtic players whom they have taken a dislike to. How the hell can these morons claim to be Celtic fans I just cannot understand, how can shouting abuse at a player help the Celtic team. Any song that could drown out these idiots would be worth having.
No RA chants or songs at Celtic Park (or anywhere near Celtic) thanks. If we were to get docked points for such an avoidable task, the thousands of us who are Celtic fans and don't give a fook about what goes on in Irish "politics" will no be happy. Put your club before your politics (on match days anyway).
If we all sing from the same"Hymn sheet", if you pardon the expression I don't think we will have any problem. In the 1950's we were been told that we were going to be threw out of Scottish Football if we continued to fly the tricolour. Our friends the Hibs tried everything they knew to get us thrown out and the gutter media backed them. Celtic was resolute and stood firm and suddenly Rangers came to our aid. So every time you see the tricolour fly at Celtic Park remember if it wasn't for the determination of Mr Kelly and Rangers we would have lost that bit of our heritage. Similarly, if us Celts stand together and if our board and the Green Brigade hold mutual discussions, as I posted some days ago, on what both want I have no doubt every one will be happy. Of course there will always be a Mendes who will want his pound of flesh but some people in the interest of sanity have to be ignored.
If we cut the stuff the club and our manager want us to cut we'll be just dandy. Not everybody has to agree with it but, for the sake of the club for fook sake, it's imperative that it's done. Can you imagine, further down the line, missing out on the title because we were docked a couple of points because, one miserable evening in December at Rugby Park, some guys just couldn't help but belt out a wee chant or two? I can think of no quicker way to turn fans against each other, plus damage the club in numerous ways.
To be honest i've learned all I need to know and read all I need to. Keep burying your heads in the sand if you want to. If the manager of the club is asking "fans", alleged fans I should say, to stop singing about the IRA and they won't listen then i'm afraid they are the problem. Here's our mission statement: Who is Celtic Football Club for? Celtic Football Club is for people who want to support a football club that strives for excellence in Scotland and in Europe, is proud of its history, supportive of its local community and seeks to support the following aims: "To maximise all opportunities to disassociate the Club from sectarianism and bigotry of any kind. To promote Celtic as a Club for all people, regardless of gender, age, religion, race or ability."
Antportmorbhoy, Most of what you say is fair enough but I beg to differ on your generalization that European fans ......wrongly assume we are praising terrorists" I am a 'European' fan and I assume no such thing. You do we 'European fans' and injustice if you believe that we are ignorant of the political situations in Britain or Ireland. We are mostly well enough educated to be able to draw clear distinctions between the songs that are sung and the changing political landscape.
Anport has it spot on. Two minor points - If people want to celebrate our club's irish roots (and why shouldn't they) there are plenty of songs that are suitable without going down the IRA route - and they get played over the tannoy most home games. The second is the assertion that IRA songs and chants are 'political' - I can see the argument for some but others I rather doubt. What political viewpoint is voiced by a chant of "Ooh ah up the Ra" or "P-I-R-A"? Not a particularly sophisticated one. Less politics more provocation, it seems to me.
You dont assume it fair enough - neither do i. Neither do most celtic fans. neither do a lot of people. In fact even most huns will know what we sing about isnt the IRA they claim it to refer to But a lot do assume it. I live in England - trust me people on the main are clueless about ireland. for years the only knowledge they have been fed IRA = bad through their media. trying to explain the different factions is like trying to explain quantum physics to medro or girvan At the end of the day its football. Im pretty certain celtic fans singing about the IRA has had zero impact on irish or british politics if you want to protest or sing in praise of a political situation do it at the appropriate location where it might actually have some impact. At the football its pointless - and it COULD get the club in trouble. what will that gain us If you love the club cut out these songs. you dont have to change your political beliefs If we struggled for alternative songs so be it. but we dont - we have plenty. I much prefer the footall ones anyway - there is a far better atmosphere when just cant get enough is being belted out by the whole ground than boys of the old brigade IMO
Admiral, I absolutely accept that. A possible reason why Paul McBride was so unequivocal in suggesting such chants would fall foul of the proposed legislation (even though there is already legislation to deal with it if necessary) but less than unequivocal in dealing with the legal status of singing Rebel songs. He expressed a belief that they should not be sung at the football, but stopped short of saying they would now be against the law at games. An important distinction.
Because politicians (and judges) are stupid. Rangers fans are going to complain about everything we do (rightly or wrongly) Im not saying i know for a fact we will be in trouble for it - we might not....but why take the risk when we dont need to?
