Correct, he has not.
He's been publicly humiliated instead by his own team.
Has he been that far off the pace? Not really. Unfair to say China was his fault when he made no contact with anyone.
F1 2016 Season: Lineup's - Rumours - News
- Thread starter BrightLampShade
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Correct, he has not.
He's been publicly humiliated instead by his own team.
Has he been that far off the pace? Not really. Unfair to say China was his fault when he made no contact with anyone.
Ruthless is not the word! Kvyat is only 15 points behind Ricciardo after 4 races! OK so his actions (Plus Vettel unexpectedly slowing down on turn 3) destroyed Red Bulls points chance in Russia but come on. I wonder if he was given a warning after crashing into Vettel in China, that if you have a stupid crash again you are out. It wouldn't surprise me that Marko added huge pressure on Kvyat on top of it being his home GP. Once again Red Bull show their true colours, win no matter what. They must pay very well to keep their engineers happy.
Two things I have noted here.
It must have been an option in the drivers contract, that intra-redbull seat switching is possible. And that demotion and promotion within the RB acadamy is possible.
This was just a dirty excuse to keep Max in the RB program, and Daniil is the fall guy.
It must have been an option in the drivers contract, that intra-redbull seat switching is possible. And that demotion and promotion within the RB acadamy is possible.
This was just a dirty excuse to keep Max in the RB program, and Daniil is the fall guy.
Unless Red Bull use a different company to contract the drivers. So drivers are employed by say 'RedBull Drivers Limited'. Then Red Bull can hire it's drivers from 'RedBull Drivers Limited' as can Torro Rosso. That way 2 separate teams with a driver pool to choose from and not a 4 car team! I would bet that for 'tax' reasons Red Bull and TR will be spilt into a number of companies. I would bet that their 2 F1 licences are held by 2 different companies and each Racing team by another company. It all helps tax wise to move profits between companies to pay the least tax and gain other benefits etc. Red Bull (drinks company) didn't get as big as it did without expert management.
The above is pure speculation but I would guess the company structure of the team we call Red Bull is quite complex.
LH 5 crashes with Massa in 12 races, 2011
RG 7 first lap crashes in 2012 (1 race ban)
PM 11 penalties in 2011, 15 in 2012, 15 in 2013, 11 in 2014.
Kvyat went for a gap in China that looked viable from his angle. If a bigger name had had that accident and come out with that Senna quote about going for every gap, then nobody would have batted an eyelid. In Russia he locked his brakes to cause the first accident (can happen to anyone), so really the only incident I feel it's justified to blame him for is his brain fart in turn 3 at Russia. Other than that the only crash I can remember/find from a crude search is in qualifying at Suzuka last year. It's not like he has a history of accidents.
It's utterly brutal from Red Bull, and if it wasn't necessary to protect their protege Max then it was utterly foolish too. Kvyat pretty much knows RB/TR won't retain him next season, his confidence has been destroyed and he's still got the majority of a season to race. There's surely no way they feel Gasly or someone else will be ready to come in mid-season? Meanwhile Max's ego is sky-high and only going to add to his precociousness, he'll end up uncontrollable. He's no doubt going to clash with Ricciardo over something, and continue to show immaturity. Treat him like a WDC in waiting and he'll act like one, and walk off to any team that'll take him once it becomes clear the 2017 Red Bull isn't competitive. If Raikkonen retires he might not even wait that long.
Ricciardo seemed to be getting on ok with Kvyat, why risk upsetting the balance there too? Unless his contract's watertight he could also move on if he gets annoyed. It's not like he'd be giving up a championship-contending car and there's plenty of suitors.
It's also ****ting on Sainz from a height to say that Verstappen is rated that much higher than him. A sixth place this season is really all that separates them in terms of results. He could also prove himself by racing well against Verstappen, a shellshocked Kvyat in an unfamiliar is an unknown now, making it harder to use him as a benchmark.
Unless Max's management have come up with some kind of ultimatum, then this doesn't make sense on any level.
RG 7 first lap crashes in 2012 (1 race ban)
PM 11 penalties in 2011, 15 in 2012, 15 in 2013, 11 in 2014.
Kvyat went for a gap in China that looked viable from his angle. If a bigger name had had that accident and come out with that Senna quote about going for every gap, then nobody would have batted an eyelid. In Russia he locked his brakes to cause the first accident (can happen to anyone), so really the only incident I feel it's justified to blame him for is his brain fart in turn 3 at Russia. Other than that the only crash I can remember/find from a crude search is in qualifying at Suzuka last year. It's not like he has a history of accidents.
It's utterly brutal from Red Bull, and if it wasn't necessary to protect their protege Max then it was utterly foolish too. Kvyat pretty much knows RB/TR won't retain him next season, his confidence has been destroyed and he's still got the majority of a season to race. There's surely no way they feel Gasly or someone else will be ready to come in mid-season? Meanwhile Max's ego is sky-high and only going to add to his precociousness, he'll end up uncontrollable. He's no doubt going to clash with Ricciardo over something, and continue to show immaturity. Treat him like a WDC in waiting and he'll act like one, and walk off to any team that'll take him once it becomes clear the 2017 Red Bull isn't competitive. If Raikkonen retires he might not even wait that long.
Ricciardo seemed to be getting on ok with Kvyat, why risk upsetting the balance there too? Unless his contract's watertight he could also move on if he gets annoyed. It's not like he'd be giving up a championship-contending car and there's plenty of suitors.
It's also ****ting on Sainz from a height to say that Verstappen is rated that much higher than him. A sixth place this season is really all that separates them in terms of results. He could also prove himself by racing well against Verstappen, a shellshocked Kvyat in an unfamiliar is an unknown now, making it harder to use him as a benchmark.
Unless Max's management have come up with some kind of ultimatum, then this doesn't make sense on any level.
Although max deserves to get promoted. Does Kvyat deserve to be dropped down?
I mean he got a podium in china
I mean he got a podium in china
Most drivers have their own personal management company to which they contract with the team. As you say, RBR may have its own driver contract company which in theory means that they then pay the drivers own management company but perhaps it doesn't stipulate which Red Bull division they will be driving for?
you put your best players in your team, Verstappen will help them challenge for 2nd in th eWCC, Kvyat won't, he's not been kicked out of F1, like say Heidfield.
For the record, I can't recall anyone slagging off Renault when they did that, but then this is red bull, the fizzy drinks company, not real racers.
Dr bellend invests his money in his drivers and team, he's not a guidance councillor, he's a breeder of winners, sooner or later he tests what they're made of to see if it's worth the continued investment of time and money. JEV and Ricciardo had their head to head in 2013, and JEV broke which is why, despite beating Kvyat in 2014, he didn;t get to move to the first team. this is Kvyats test, he either passes and gets results, or he fails because he lacks the mental strength to be a champion and conquer adversity. so far he's had it fairly easy, he's had no real pressure to get results.
For the record, I can't recall anyone slagging off Renault when they did that, but then this is red bull, the fizzy drinks company, not real racers.
Dr bellend invests his money in his drivers and team, he's not a guidance councillor, he's a breeder of winners, sooner or later he tests what they're made of to see if it's worth the continued investment of time and money. JEV and Ricciardo had their head to head in 2013, and JEV broke which is why, despite beating Kvyat in 2014, he didn;t get to move to the first team. this is Kvyats test, he either passes and gets results, or he fails because he lacks the mental strength to be a champion and conquer adversity. so far he's had it fairly easy, he's had no real pressure to get results.
Red Bull contract the drivers and loan them to other teams. It's not really any different to Wehrlein or Gutierrez.
Surely, surely this is driven more by the desire to not lose Verstappen to any other teams than it is anything to do with punishment for Kyvyat?
It is one of the worst treatment of a driver that I have ever seen. Ruthless, cold, unnecessary at this stage- unless of course Verstappen was about to jump ship. Even so, surely they could have signed him to the first team for 2017.
It's public humiliation of Kyvyat and although he was in my opinion fortunate to be there, to lose your seat like this is awful. I hope Vettel has nothing to do with this because that really shouldn't be his business frankly.
It is one of the worst treatment of a driver that I have ever seen. Ruthless, cold, unnecessary at this stage- unless of course Verstappen was about to jump ship. Even so, surely they could have signed him to the first team for 2017.
It's public humiliation of Kyvyat and although he was in my opinion fortunate to be there, to lose your seat like this is awful. I hope Vettel has nothing to do with this because that really shouldn't be his business frankly.
Read a bit further down the thread and have to say that it appears this is a convenient stick to beat RedBull with.
I'm sure this isn't the only example, but when McLaren dropped (rather than demoted) Michael Andretti (a much more established driver who never got a real chance) and replaced him with Mika Hakkinnen, I don't think they got such criticism and it didn't turn out badly for them in the long run either.
I'm sure this isn't the only example, but when McLaren dropped (rather than demoted) Michael Andretti (a much more established driver who never got a real chance) and replaced him with Mika Hakkinnen, I don't think they got such criticism and it didn't turn out badly for them in the long run either.
drivers being replaced happens each season, now RBR and Vettel are involved it's become a massive disgrace.
"Each season"
Yeah- in the winter and certainly not immediately after the worst weekend of your short career.
Absolute nonsense that it's because it is Vettel or RBR. If this were anyone I'd still be livid but it just happens to be another merciless decision in the catalogue of catastrophe that RBR publicly put themselves through.
It's a poor decision to fire anyone after one bad race I don't care who you are. If we did this we'd have no drivers left.
But I'd expect them to have a contract with their respective teams for the season.
It's all about Brand Verstappen. Red Bull clearly value it very highly and want some of those "Youngest driver to..." records back with the company. They've fast tracked his entire career, one season in cars, finishing runner up in F3 doesn't warrant a midfield drive, and nothing he's done with Toro Rosso warrants a move to a top team, he's shown promise but has lacked consistency, has had no spectacular results and still makes mistakes.
It makes no difference. Even if Kvyat had a contract with RBR they'd have just sacked him and left him the option of retiring or joining STR.