Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

How pompous are you?
You really don't like anyone crossing swords with you on here do you? What a bitchy reply!

This is what you said :

" My wife, who is genuinely undecided on how she will vote, just summed up the Brexit campaign as "we're British, it'll all be fine".

I think, and definitely hope, I'm overplaying this, but there are some really troubling undertones in all this. At the moment it's all about the enemy without, 'faceless bureaucrats', unequal treaties, US presidents with an opinion. Should Brexit lose it will be blamed on the enemy within, traitors, anti-patriots, communists, foreigners and 'unfairness'. Should they win, and things don't change for the better immediately (especially on immigration) they will shift blame by focussing even more on the enemy within. Never their fault, others always conspiring to deny us our non existent 'destiny', populism with a sinister underbelly."

You are forever preaching to everyone about generalisations and you come out with this old clap-trap.
IMO you are a classic member of the liberal elite. Enough money not to be effected by many of the issues, but determined to show how "in touch" you are with the great unwashed, whilst always taking every opportunity to run down your own Country and its history.

The EU is undemocratic. Even your fellow liberal lefty George Galloway, someone I never thought I'd agree with, says this. It is also an elitist club that is set up for the main players.
It is also on course to become a United States of Europe, something you have said you'd like to see. Fair enough, but I don't.

Where did I claim to be speaking for the English?

Yes, Brown was right to keep us out of the Euro, but that was about all he did get right. He also sold off our Gold reserves at rock bottom prices.

I'd be prepared to bet a fair amount that if it was only the English voting in the referendum, we would be leaving the EU.

You ridicule my answer to our destiny. Clearly I was answering in context to the vote on leaving the EU. In that context, our destiny for me, is very much for Parliament to be completely in charge of our Country and not unelected foreigners (oh no, I said the foreigner word. Must be a racist eh?). All you can do is go on about the fact that we once ruled a lot of the World and had an Empire. Something for the likes of you to no doubt be very ashamed.

Nothing could prevent me from getting out and voting to leave this decaying superstate.I suspect that there are a lot of people who also feel that this is a sovereignty question above all else and will come out in their millions to have their say (no doubt, in your World, these are all little Englander racists). All we get from the liberal elite are warnings of impending doom and disaster. This latest one, that we will be much poorer, FOREVER!!!, just about takes the biscuit. Europe won't stop trading with the 5th largest economy if we leave. If the EU is so wonderful and leaving would be such a disaster, why did Cameron say he needed to get substantial changes or we could leave? He never meant it and he came back with virtually nothing. Yet, it would be a disaster to leave this unchanged club? What bollocks!

The EU is falling apart with unemployment on the rise in many states. Merkel's ridiculous invitation to the third world to come and have a new life in the West has condemned Europe to decades of potential extremism.
When we voted last time we voted to join a Common Market. The EU has now grown into a failing, undemocratic, dishonest superstate that leaves very few people prosperous and nobody safe.
Unlike the tepid liberal elite in Europe and here, those of us that want our Country back care passionately about this vote. I hope it pisses down on election day and the wishy washy liberal can't be arsed to get out and vote. People like me, the ones you deride in your pompous manner, will be out in force.

You know what Col? I doubt we're going to see eye to eye on this one.

 

[Chaz]

Well, Chaz, I have yet to see any Brexit supporter arguing that the problem with the EU is that it over-protects employees. So I just cannot see the status quo being upset by a British Parliament on worker rights in the event of Brexit, particularly when the Tory/Lib coalition gave fathers paternity rights that are mostly not being taken up

But you don't know, do you? And that's the whole point...

 

[finglasqpr]

Lads, as somebody who has been heavily involved in the debate previously, please can you all give it a rest for a few days at least. Not only are you all going around in circles, you are tying yourselves up in knots at the same time. I doubt anybody is going to change anybody's opinion so there is no point falling out over something none of you have control of. Roll on the vote and an end to all this pointless debate.

The next time I meet any of you for a pint, politics is banned!!!

 

[TootingExcess]

Ok Fingi, let's Move the conversation down a football route, we always hear about Wilson's 1970 election defeat to England's exit to West Germany. The disappointment supposedly spurring people to vote for change.

I suspect a pathetic showing and early exit for England in France would also spur people to vote for change and Exit.

What do we think? Anyone cheering for Wales and Russia just in case it helps? Or maybe a good showing will have the adverse effect?

 

[cor blymie]

Lads, as somebody who has been heavily involved in the debate previously, please can you all give it a rest for a few days at least. Not only are you all going around in circles, you are tying yourselves up in knots at the same time. I doubt anybody is going to change anybody's opinion so there is no point falling out over something none of you have control of. Roll on the vote and an end to all this pointless debate.

The next time I meet any of you for a pint, politics is banned!!!

unfortunately this is far too important a subject to be sidelined because of abusive posts by the Remain voters on here. Finglas, as you are well aware, the Irish have been forced to vote against what they truly wanted and the scare tactics, or bogeyman stories, are being used to sway the British voters too. Hold your nerve fellow Brexiters, Independence day is coming

 

[finglasqpr]

unfortunately this is far too important a subject to be sidelined because of abusive posts by the Remain voters on here. Finglas, as you are well aware, the Irish have been forced to vote against what they truly wanted and the scare tactics, or bogeyman stories, are being used to sway the British voters too. Hold your nerve fellow Brexiters, Independence day is coming

To me, there haven't been any abusive posts by either side. Tempers are just fraying a little.

PS - this is the second time I have said this to you, NOBODY forced Irish voters to vote for something they didn't want. I am sure the British people will vote for whatever they choose on June 23rd.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

To me, there haven't been any abusive posts by either side. Tempers are just fraying a little.

PS - this is the second time I have said this to you, NOBODY forced Irish voters to vote for something they didn't want. I am sure the British people will vote for whatever they choose on June 23rd.

The problem was that we got the answer wrong the first time so had to vote again (twice if memory serves me right, Nice and Maastrict), so you're right to say that nobody forced us, but we had to do it again to get the result the Government wanted.

The UK does not have that option, it's a one off, no 2nd chance.

 

[sb_73]

The problem was that we got the answer wrong the first time so had to vote again (twice if memory serves me right, Nice and Maastrict), so you're right to say that nobody forced us, but we had to do it again to get the result the Government wanted.

The UK does not have that option, it's a one off, no 2nd chance.

Apparently there is a type of second chance. If we vote to stay in, but that is followed by proposed EU treaty change that has to be put to a referendum - not sure if the result is binding on the government of the day. Given the evident sensitivities about the EU, the government may also decide to go for a referendum if we see large scale changes which don't require treaty change. Of course if we vote leave I should imagine that's it.

 

[Chaz]

Well, Chaz, I have yet to see any Brexit supporter arguing that the problem with the EU is that it over-protects employees. So I just cannot see the status quo being upset by a British Parliament on worker rights in the event of Brexit, particularly when the Tory/Lib coalition gave fathers paternity rights that are mostly not being taken up

O course you haven't. They are too busy calling the Remain camp names to talk about the issues themselves.

 

[Chaz]

unfortunately this is far too important a subject to be sidelined because of abusive posts by the Remain voters on here. Finglas, as you are well aware, the Irish have been forced to vote against what they truly wanted and the scare tactics, or bogeyman stories, are being used to sway the British voters too. Hold your nerve fellow Brexiters, Independence day is coming

Patronise much? The Exit people have been just as vociferous and just as abusive in their turn, but if you only want to see one side of this, then I guess there's little point continuing any actual debate, is there. - except it's far too important. So maybe you want to consider not insulting 50% of the posters here when you call for calm?

EVERYONE has a view, and EVERYONE has the ability to act twattishly, irrespective of their pro- or anti-EU stance. Just ask Boris how he feels about those who oppose him...

 

[Chaz]

The problem was that we got the answer wrong the first time so had to vote again (twice if memory serves me right, Nice and Maastrict), so you're right to say that nobody forced us, but we had to do it again to get the result the Government wanted.

The UK does not have that option, it's a one off, no 2nd chance.

At least we are getting a chance - unlike the Lisbon 'Treaty' when Nu Labour decided they knew best. I'm so glad we have seen the back of them...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Apparently there is a type of second chance. If we vote to stay in, but that is followed by proposed EU treaty change that has to be put to a referendum - not sure if the result is binding on the government of the day. Given the evident sensitivities about the EU, the government may also decide to go for a referendum if we see large scale changes which don't require treaty change. Of course if we vote leave I should imagine that's it.

I think that's right, and it's an issue for REMAIN. If we vote out, we're out. If we vote in, we're in for now. But if in 10 years time, the Eurozone comprises 26 states acting as one, and the UK and Denmark feel put upon, there may be demands for another. I've always felt that the "concessions" that Cameron came back with from Brussels before the referendum was triggered were no more than sticking plasters. I don't see a clear path forward for the UK in an EU that is slowly becoming one state.

 

[finglasqpr]

The problem was that we got the answer wrong the first time so had to vote again (twice if memory serves me right, Nice and Maastrict), so you're right to say that nobody forced us, but we had to do it again to get the result the Government wanted.

The UK does not have that option, it's a one off, no 2nd chance.

I remember at the time of the Nice vote, there was something going on in the taxi industry and I decided to vote no as a way of giving the government a bloody nose. The second time around, my parochial little issue had been resolved and I decided to vote yes. People like to do the opposite to what they are told to do. It is human nature. As you say, nobody forced us. Cor blymie doesn't realise that.

 

[Chaz]

I think that's right, and it's an issue for REMAIN. If we vote out, we're out. If we vote in, we're in for now. But if in 10 years time, the Eurozone comprises 26 states acting as one, and the UK and Denmark feel put upon, there may be demands for another. I've always felt that the "concessions" that Cameron came back with from Brussels before the referendum was triggered were no more than sticking plasters. I don't see a clear path forward for the UK in an EU that is slowly becoming one state.

Sounds like fear of the future. I thought that it was only the Remain camp that were trading on fear?

 

[cor blymie]

I remember at the time of the Nice vote, there was something going on in the taxi industry and I decided to vote no as a way of giving the government a bloody nose. The second time around, my parochial little issue had been resolved and I decided to vote yes. People like to do the opposite to what they are told to do. It is human nature. As you say, nobody forced us. Cor blymie doesn't realise that.

forced probably the wrong term, but certainly they ignored the first vote and threatened you with dire consequences if you didn't toe the line. Much like the Dutch vote last week. Anyways, good debate from all sides on this very important vote

 

[finglasqpr]

forced probably the wrong term, but certainly they ignored the first vote and threatened you with dire consequences if you didn't toe the line. Much like the Dutch vote last week. Anyways, good debate from all sides on this very important vote

Nobody was threatened with anything. Where did you get that from, Nigel Farage????

 

[cor blymie]

Nobody was threatened with anything. Where did you get that from, Nigel Farage????

then for pete's sake why was there a need for a 2nd vote

 

[finglasqpr]

Because the whole treaty was being held up until we voted yes. 1 per cent of the eu population should not hold the other 99 per cent to ransom.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Sounds like fear of the future. I thought that it was only the Remain camp that were trading on fear?

It's an attempt to see where this EU passenger liner is headed.

 

[cor blymie]

Because the whole treaty was being held up until we voted yes. 1 per cent of the eu population should not hold the other 99 per cent to ransom.

so there was no point having a vote because the EU elite told the Irish government to have another vote until it got the result it wanted I was right the first time, you were forced. Take your own advise and take a break from this debate as you are going around in circles