Rival Watch / Other Teams

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Diego said:
I have never seen a pound coin score a goal.
Nobody pays their squad or manager to finish below others, the fact is there can only be one winner and everybody else should just congratulate them and try harder next season.
Big grounds, lots of fans and lots of money does not make a good team, the players drive, will and team spirit pushes them that extra bit.
How many United players of the past did you laugh at and think weren't good enough for your team whilst all the while they were part of title winning teams?
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I don't understand why you keep talking about pound coins scoring goals. I addressed that absurdity of an argument in a post yesterday, so I'd rather you not keep bringing it up.

Nobody does pay their squad or manager to finish below others, you're correct. But the expectations for each club and each team vary greatly depending on their resources and what they are capable of doing. You'd expect less from Wigan Athletic compared to Manchester City. And whilst big grounds, lots of fans and lots of money alone do not make a great team, these things should go a long way in helping to assemble a great team because they are such advantageous factors that you simply can't discount them. Your last question proves my point about managers and the effects they have on the team. But even so, let's not act like United have been financially handicapped, they've been one of the richest sides in the world for many, many years now. The fact that you didn't always choose to spend that money is another matter, but having the greatest manager of all time at your club clearly had a significant bearing on the results you had and the titles you won.
 
Sanj said:
We are talking about under or overachieving, if a team with less resources than us finish above us over a 38 game season, then yes, we have underachieved, because we have the necessary resources to be better than them, but for whatever reason have not used them (like buying no ****ing outfield players last summer). <doh>
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I made this point to him in a discussion yesterday. He either ignored it or he doesn't understand the dynamics of football and a fan's expectations.
 
Sanj said:
We are talking about under or overachieving, if a team with less resources than us finish above us over a 38 game season, then yes, we have underachieved, because we have the necessary resources to be better than them, but for whatever reason have not used them (like buying no ****ing outfield players last summer). <doh>
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The only resources that count are the players, they either perform or they don't. Cost is irrelevant as Leicester are proving.
It's all well and good to say the top (rich) teams aren't performing, but Leicester have come from the relegation zone to potentially winning the title, have the other 12-15 teams underperformed also?
 
BrunelGooner said:
I made this point to him in a discussion yesterday. He either ignored it or he doesn't understand the dynamics of football and a fan's expectations.
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Oh I understand fans expectations, that is why I have said on this board many times that you are the most "entitled" supporters in the world.
Everybody wants their team to be the best, not many expect it.
 
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Diego said:
Oh I understand fans expectations, that is why I have said on this board many times that you are the most "entitled" supporters in the world.
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And again, I've already explained to you why you're wrong but you keep peddling this myth. You either stop or I'll keep calling you out on it.
 
Oh, and just to prove you both right and shoot myself in the foot a little, Leicester are actually a very wealthy club with very rich owners. Maybe they are where they should be?
 
Diego said:
The only resources that count are the players, they either perform or they don't. Cost is irrelevant as Leicester are proving.
It's all well and good to say the top (rich) teams aren't performing, but Leicester have come from the relegation zone to potentially winning the title, have the other 12-15 teams underperformed also?
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Leicester are of course a potentially one off miracle story, but Spurs doing better than us, does really expose us. They have built their squad with better scouting and of course have hired a young hungry manager who has implanted his style of play and made them better. Spurs are showing us up this season, while we continue to do the same **** every season, of course we have underachieved compared to them, they have done better than us off and on the pitch, despite us having the resources to overshadow them, but have somehow conspired to only 'improve' our squad by thinking that just one player will improve our entire squad.
 
Diego said:
Oh I understand fans expectations, that is why I have said on this board many times that you are the most "entitled" supporters in the world.
Everybody wants their team to be the best, not many expect it.
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Indeed, im not quite sure why Arsenal feel like they should be league challengers every season. Based on...?
 
Diego said:
The only resources that count are the players, they either perform or they don't.
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Who buys these players? Who has to manage them? Who has to make sure they're utilised properly in the team? Resources aren't just spent on attempting to get the right players, it's also about having the right manager to maximise the ability of these players and having the best-trained staff, coaches, fitness methods etc. But this is the whole point of why richer clubs are the most successful - they can afford to buy the best players if they want to and can employ the best coaches they deem possible.

Cost is irrelevant as Leicester are proving.
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This sentence right here contradicts your subsequent post. You can't say cost is irrelevant, then say that Leicester have wealthy owners. Like I said, in the last 11 years, the three most richest clubs in the division have all won the league between them. But I guess money had nothing to do with that ey? Just a pure coincidence?

It's all well and good to say the top (rich) teams aren't performing, but Leicester have come from the relegation zone to potentially winning the title, have the other 12-15 teams underperformed also?
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I don't know about the resources of all the other 12-15 teams. What I do know is that Leicester shouldn't be finishing ahead of Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man City, Man United and Liverpool. The fact that they are illustrates that, although Leicester have done phenomenally well, most of the aforementioned clubs have been underwhelming this season. And based on their financial positions, they shouldn't be finishing miles behind a team promoted two years ago.
 
Lee263 said:
Indeed, im not quite sure why Arsenal feel like they should be league challengers every season. Based on...?
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The fact that you're asking this question shows you haven't read my comments in this thread and are just jumping into the discussion for the sake of it. Either go through the thread and read the comments properly or don't say anything at all because you just look like an idiot.
 
Lee263 said:
Indeed, im not quite sure why Arsenal feel like they should be league challengers every season. Based on...?
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Money, size of ground, situated in London, these seem to be the major factors.
If you look around the boards of other rich clubs with big grounds and fan base's etc, you will see that they are all disappointed at the way their teams are performing but none of them are saying they should be winning the league or feel entitled to do so.
 
@Diego

Please respond to my rebuttal of your (admittedly flimsy) arguments. You've not addressed any of them. If you're not going to reply to them, I'm just going to assume that you've acknowledged I'm right in what I'm saying.
 
Diego makes a good point. At the end of the day you can have all the resources in the world but if the players aren't performing on the pitch then you aren't winning jack. We've seen our team do the usual annual collapse this season. Even without additional outfield summer transfers, on paper we ahould have been challenging for the title.

Problem is our expectations outstrip the reality of our current team. We're still living in the past of Wenger's past glories. As I've said earlier, his level is now domestic cup at best and I don't recognise top 4 as a trophy.
 
Lee263 said:
This time next season, Arsenal *will* be in exactly the same position. Bookmark this.
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Unfortunately will be true, this season has confirmed it for me and in many people's eyes too. Why do you think Wenger's biggest supporters on this forum have vanished.
 
Gooner said:
This was another one of those" trophies" we celebrated. Yet another thing to camouflage year after year of chronic capitulation. Absolute joke.
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Gimme a break St Totteringhams day is just a bit of fun. Nobody 'celebrated' it like it was a real thing. We're just poking fun at the Spuds.
 
BrunelGooner said:
@Diego

Please respond to my rebuttal of your (admittedly flimsy) arguments. You've not addressed any of them. If you're not going to reply to them, I'm just going to assume that you've acknowledged I'm right in what I'm saying.
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I have been in bed followed by work, you should not just assume things because somebody is a little too busy to be on this forum.
Have just got in and still have things to do, will reply later.
 
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