Off Topic Political Debate

[wear_yellow]

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 about how to make a Brexit. In it it was stated that, "We don't have any trade negotiators in Whitehall - we haven't had any since 1973," "The British government would be hard-pressed to find people to do a trade negotiation. They might have to borrow civil servants from other European countries."

Who stated it? I wonder who is negotiating with those nasty Chinese and even nastier EDF people then?

 

[Deleted 1]

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 about how to make a Brexit. In it it was stated that, "We don't have any trade negotiators in Whitehall - we haven't had any since 1973," "The British government would be hard-pressed to find people to do a trade negotiation. They might have to borrow civil servants from other European countries."

Superorns to the rescue...

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Who stated it? I wonder who is negotiating with those nasty Chinese and even nastier EDF people then?

Charles Grant who is a regular contributor to the Financial Times, the International New York Times and many other publications. Also he has worked for the Economist and seeks to find reform of the EU. Rather better than a Sun reporter I would have thought.

 

[wear_yellow]

Charles Grant who is a regular contributor to the Financial Times, the International New York Times and many other publications. Also he has worked for the Economist and seeks to find reform of the EU. Rather better than a Sun reporter I would have thought.

And the author of The Global Case For Staying in The EU? And the "owner " of the Centre for European Reform? But in his biography I just cannot find where he worked in HR at the Dept of Trade that would qualify him for commenting on the said departments employees. Funny that...
You would have to ask someone who reads The Sun, I cannot help you - but it would seem you are getting rattled with these cheap shots. I will not stoop to these.

 

[wear_yellow]

Only speculation I know but it is not just Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but also a difference of the generations - the 18-29 year old age group is also mostly in favour of remaining, and they will have to live with the result for longer In a normal election these differences could be subsequently reversed but here we must presume that the result will stand for the foreseeable future. If I were a Scot I would want to break away in that scenario - even without a referendum.

You will need to add the rapidly declining Scottish economy to your speculation? With the continued depressed oil price, the Scottish economy is on it's uppers. It seems that public opinion is turning against the SNP as people realise the mess they would have been if the had voted for devolution. It will be very interesting in the local elections in Scotland later this year, when we will see the results of real elections and not the polls.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Really to simply choose odds and ends from a persons experience makes one wonder who is making cheap shots.

After studying modern history at Cambridge University, Charles took a diploma in French politics at Grenoble University. Returning to London, Grant joinedEuromoney, the financial magazine, in 1981. He moved to The Economist in 1986, where he wrote about the City. In 1987 he began a series of articles which exposed the County NatWest-Blue Arrow scandal, which led to two Department of Trade and Industry inquiries and a long criminal trial.

In 1989 The Economist posted Charles to Brussels, to cover the European Community. In 1993 Charles returned to The Economist’s London office, soon becoming defence editor. His biography of Commission President Jacques Delors (Delors: Inside the House that Jacques Built, published by Nicholas Brealey) appeared in 1994. It was subsequently translated into French, Japanese and Russian.

He was a director and trustee of the British Council from 2002 to 2008. He is a member of the international advisory boards of the Moscow School of Civic Education, the Turkish think-tank EDAM and the French think-tank Terra Nova. He is a member of the council of the Ditchley Foundation, and chairman of the foundation's programme committee. He is a vice chairman of Business for New Europe. In 2004 he became a chevalier of France’s Ordre Nationale du Mérite, and in 2013 a Companion of St Michael and St George (CMG) "for services to European and wider international policy-making". In 2015 he was awarded the Bene Merito medal by the Polish government.

Should I take no notice of someone who has this sort of experience and broadcasts on the Radio because of it?

 

[vic-rijrode]

Really to simply choose odds and ends from a persons experience makes one wonder who is making cheap shots.

After studying modern history at Cambridge University, Charles took a diploma in French politics at Grenoble University. Returning to London, Grant joinedEuromoney, the financial magazine, in 1981. He moved to The Economist in 1986, where he wrote about the City. In 1987 he began a series of articles which exposed the County NatWest-Blue Arrow scandal, which led to two Department of Trade and Industry inquiries and a long criminal trial.

In 1989 The Economist posted Charles to Brussels, to cover the European Community. In 1993 Charles returned to The Economist’s London office, soon becoming defence editor. His biography of Commission President Jacques Delors (Delors: Inside the House that Jacques Built, published by Nicholas Brealey) appeared in 1994. It was subsequently translated into French, Japanese and Russian.

He was a director and trustee of the British Council from 2002 to 2008. He is a member of the international advisory boards of the Moscow School of Civic Education, the Turkish think-tank EDAM and the French think-tank Terra Nova. He is a member of the council of the Ditchley Foundation, and chairman of the foundation's programme committee. He is a vice chairman of Business for New Europe. In 2004 he became a chevalier of France’s Ordre Nationale du Mérite, and in 2013 a Companion of St Michael and St George (CMG) "for services to European and wider international policy-making". In 2015 he was awarded the Bene Merito medal by the Polish government.

Should I take no notice of someone who has this sort of experience and broadcasts on the Radio because of it?

Ah, but not English you know - bloody Johnny Foreigners!

 

[wear_yellow]

Really to simply choose odds and ends from a persons experience makes one wonder who is making cheap shots.

After studying modern history at Cambridge University, Charles took a diploma in French politics at Grenoble University. Returning to London, Grant joinedEuromoney, the financial magazine, in 1981. He moved to The Economist in 1986, where he wrote about the City. In 1987 he began a series of articles which exposed the County NatWest-Blue Arrow scandal, which led to two Department of Trade and Industry inquiries and a long criminal trial.

In 1989 The Economist posted Charles to Brussels, to cover the European Community. In 1993 Charles returned to The Economist’s London office, soon becoming defence editor. His biography of Commission President Jacques Delors (Delors: Inside the House that Jacques Built, published by Nicholas Brealey) appeared in 1994. It was subsequently translated into French, Japanese and Russian.

He was a director and trustee of the British Council from 2002 to 2008. He is a member of the international advisory boards of the Moscow School of Civic Education, the Turkish think-tank EDAM and the French think-tank Terra Nova. He is a member of the council of the Ditchley Foundation, and chairman of the foundation's programme committee. He is a vice chairman of Business for New Europe. In 2004 he became a chevalier of France’s Ordre Nationale du Mérite, and in 2013 a Companion of St Michael and St George (CMG) "for services to European and wider international policy-making". In 2015 he was awarded the Bene Merito medal by the Polish government.

Should I take no notice of someone who has this sort of experience and broadcasts on the Radio because of it?

I read all of his impressive biography, he is clearly a very experienced journalist and I used 2 key points to demonstrate that he is clearly very pro a EU - I did not see the need to point out any additional points. But again, I do not see where he is qualified to comment on who are employed in Government Departments? Again, who is negotiating trade deals with all those non-EU countries?

 

[yorkshirehornet]

So who do we trust.....??

Watch or read and it is different dependant on the lens of objectivity of the reporters.

The reality is i would rather trust the reporting of a respected journo than the comments of Gove/Blair/Cameron etc etc


It seems if they present a view slightly different to our own... then they are not qualified to speak.

I think in the discussions we are having most of us are in an case presenting pro or anti views and using info to back em up?

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I read all of his impressive biography, he is clearly a very experienced journalist and I used 2 key points to demonstrate that he is clearly very pro a EU - I did not see the need to point out any additional points. But again, I do not see where he is qualified to comment on who are employed in Government Departments? Again, who is negotiating trade deals with all those non-EU countries?

I think that procurement of of items, power stations etc.... is a very different thing to negotiating legal treaties. You also overlook the fact that his work although broadly in favour of the EU is designed to reform the institution. Much of it is suggesting what and how change can be achieved. The fact that he is an expert in the field is why he is invited to broadcast on the problems of an exit. As Yorkie says, would you take his knowledge and experience, yet ignore if for the views of politicians who have far more self interest at stake? I wouldn't.

 

[colognehornet]

So who do we trust.....??

Watch or read and it is different dependant on the lens of objectivity of the reporters.

The reality is i would rather trust the reporting of a respected journo than the comments of Gove/Blair/Cameron etc etc


It seems if they present a view slightly different to our own... then they are not qualified to speak.

I think in the discussions we are having most of us are in an case presenting pro or anti views and using info to back em up?

You are right that most of us on here are on one side or the other. However it is good to realize that there is also a left wing opposition to EU. membership (I hate being on the same side as Cameron/Osbourne in anything). The way Greece has been treated and the way TTIP has been negotiated secretly without any real public consultation reinforces the idea that the EU. is an increasingly right wing neo liberal institution. My reason for supporting membership is because I fear that Britain outside could lurch even further to the right - if Britain had a left wing government which was being blocked by the EU. then it might be a different matter.

 

[superhorns]

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 about how to make a Brexit. In it it was stated that, "We don't have any trade negotiators in Whitehall - we haven't had any since 1973," "The British government would be hard-pressed to find people to do a trade negotiation. They might have to borrow civil servants from other European countries."

The german exporters cried themselves to sleep last night over your comment above , poor souls.

 

[wear_yellow]

I think that procurement of of items, power stations etc.... is a very different thing to negotiating legal treaties. You also overlook the fact that his work although broadly in favour of the EU is designed to reform the institution. Much of it is suggesting what and how change can be achieved. The fact that he is an expert in the field is why he is invited to broadcast on the problems of an exit. As Yorkie says, would you take his knowledge and experience, yet ignore if for the views of politicians who have far more self interest at stake? I wouldn't.

I agree his Biography indicates that he has much expertise in European Economics - being a senior journalist at the Economist and his opinion is of interest. My question is how does that make him qualified to comment on the skills of the people working in government departments? That was the comment you quoted, you did not mention any of his other opinions on an exit from the EU.

 

[wear_yellow]

So who do we trust.....??

Watch or read and it is different dependant on the lens of objectivity of the reporters.

The reality is i would rather trust the reporting of a respected journo than the comments of Gove/Blair/Cameron etc etc


It seems if they present a view slightly different to our own... then they are not qualified to speak.

I think in the discussions we are having most of us are in an case presenting pro or anti views and using info to back em up?

I was questioning the specific comment regarding having no one qualified to undertake trade negotiations - nothing more nothing less. It does not involve newspapers or the 2 camps, or journalists qualifications, just that specific point.
As with the comment regarding the trade deficit with EU countries, it seems that if I ask specific questions they are bypassed and a different point addressed.

 

[superhorns]

Report released today from the House of Commons library states Cameron's negotiations 'cannot guarantee all the outcome envisaged' Researchers claim that parts of it could end up 'effectively being reversed by the European Court of Justice'.

This study backs Michael Gove and rubbishes Cameron's claim the agreement is 'legally binding and irreversible'

Oh dear!

 

[colognehornet]

Report released today from the House of Commons library states Cameron's negotiations 'cannot guarantee all the outcome envisaged' Researchers claim that parts of it could end up 'effectively being reversed by the European Court of Justice'.

This study backs Michael Gove and rubbishes Cameron's claim the agreement is 'legally binding and irreversible'

Oh dear!

Shall we all sit back and watch the Tories tearing each other to pieces New elections within the year ?

 

[Toby]

Shall we all sit back and watch the Tories tearing each other to pieces New elections within the year ?

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[wear_yellow]

Shall we all sit back and watch the Tories tearing each other to pieces New elections within the year ?

What is really surprising is that New New Labour is not taking any advantage of the Tories disarray. I would have thought that some of them would have tried to make some mileage out of it - probably not Comrade Corbyn as he is a historical Eurosceptic, but there must be others up for a bit of a fight?

 

[superhorns]

We have fixed parliaments now, not a chance of an election before 2020, sorry lefties!

 

[superhorns]

What is really surprising is that New New Labour is not taking any advantage of the Tories disarray. I would have thought that some of them would have tried to make some mileage out of it - probably not Comrade Corbyn as he is a historical Eurosceptic, but there must be others up for a bit of a fight?

Labour is more divided than the Tories, the only other alternative is UKIP.