Rival watch

True, but the previous bully was a Knight of the Realm and in the American eyes of the owners (sorry RWAEB) related to the Queen. Mourinho is just a small, angry foreigner.

 

I can't wait to see how he deals with the old tart hanging around at the club, though.
There's no way he'll have him hanging over him at every turn.

 

9.5% of the world's population support Utd. That's a big market for sponsors. Success on the field has been important to Utd's rise to being the most popular club, but that support won't disappear overnight. And the reality is, as all rival fans know deep down, that money eventually talks. The club is getting richer and ultimately the right combination of manager and players will be found. The decline is relative.

 

9.5% of the world's population? I'd be surprised if that many actually followed football. So perhaps you're right!

 

I guess that's the part that surprises me. The idea of a vast global following is more or less alien to Spurs so I for one don't have the foggiest how these phenomena work. I agree that 'support won't disappear overnight' but surely 3-4 years is far longer than 'overnight' in today's frantically fast-paced world where everyone demands instant results? And beyond this, for a good couple of years now United have also lacked the Galactico feel about their team out on the pitch. Rooney is still a massive (ugly) face around the world but has been poor for a few seasons now. Beyond him - who is there? Very, very few players in United's current squad can conjure up more than a feeble flicker of star-struck excitement amongst those legions of fans abroad. And yet...corporate sponsorship is following a trajectory that suggests either 'It'll turn soon', or 'we don't care'. The whole thing is so strange but I guess the closest comparison is Liverpool. Their relatively enormous budget and fanbase was built off the back of glories achieved a generation ago. So I guess the definition of 'not overnight' is closer to 20-30 years than 3-4...

 

Fergie was always the one person Maureen respected but you can picture that respect going very quickly out of the window...

 

I bet Mourhino's like one of those "mates" we've all, at some time or other in our lives, have been saddled with, who gets to know you, borrows a score off you (when he thinks he's got to know you well enough), and then ****s off never to be seen ever again.

 

You had a lot of those mates HIAG?

 

Hate to say it CK, but it's history. That's why Liverpool still have great appeal. It's the same reason why people buy any popular brand - there is an immediate association with success and popularity over a period of time, even if the product itself isn't always representative of quality. Pepsi and McDonald's, for example. That association has big appeal for fans abroad - especially in places like the US where they like heritage, even if it's not their own. Utd is the most recognisable brand in football and gets the most exposure because of the PL. Our relationship with football teams may be a lot more personal and tribal, but for many around the world it's a fashion or lifestyle choice. Brand loyalty is what makes all these top brands hugely successful. I don't personally like it - and don't want to view football in this way - but it's the reality of the modern world.

 

The top brands can stay that way by claiming to be the best, though.

 

Especially when next year's their year.

 

Absolutely. There is definitely more logic behind the rampant success of brands such as those Lidls mentioned than there is behind the hordes of deluded followers running around in tracksuits and vests shouting 'fechin' hell next year is our year, lads!'

United have done nothing on the pitch for almost 3 years that could have in any way contributed positively to their global image. Not only have the trophies dried up but the football has been largely dire and the superstars have simply stopped signing. There is surely something here that defies logic? If Nike or Macdonalds or Versace or any other globally adored brand went 3+ years lurching from underperformance to scandal to poor advertising to poor quality products, their shares would tumble. Look at Tesco. Once a seemingly unstoppable commercial force but a few years of bad decisions and disconnect from the consumer and they're in serious trouble relative to their glory days.

I'd prefer to argue that football is uniquely a combination of the 'brand' that you've mentioned but with the crucial ingredient of tribalism and blood-deep loyalty that is so special in this country and other major footballing nations. I strongly suspect that plenty of Asian youngsters for example started supporting United like magpies drawn to shiny things. But after they migrated in their droves, discovered that one of if not the most exciting and gripping aspects of the game is the element of tribal loyalty. The fact that 4 generations of fans from the same family have attended the same stadia to watch the same clubs for over 100 years, through rain and shine. I speak for myself but one of the most special moments I've had was going to WHL with my elderly grandfather shortly before he passed away in 2012. The look in his eyes as he walked slowly through turnstiles that had been admitting members of my family for generations. That familiar smile on his face as we looked up at the proud golden Cockerel sitting atop the stand. F*ck me I'm welling up just writing this!

And there's the rub you see. There's more to football than branding and success. Success isn't addictive. Ask any major athlete or artist. One of the hardest elements of success is maintaining that success indefinitely. Once in a blue moon you get people like Fergie coming along who would probably rage if someone beat them to the last biscuit in the tin. But by and large, I think the average Joe needs much more. It's the tribalism that's addictive. The feeling of being part of a movement, a heaving mass of beer bellies and wide-eyed kids roaring their team's every positive and bemoaning their every negative.

If you can maintain success long enough to expose enough people to the tribalism, I believe you've found the formula for global success and ultimately almost permanent global clout.

 

You make some good points CK, but to us Manchester is a northern, industrial city, centre of the industrial revolution and with a history of factories, mills and grey skies. To young Asians, it's just the home of the most glamorous football team in the world. Just like New York is glamorous to me because of the Ramones. I'd love to hang out on 2nd Avenue, eating chicken vindaloo. They don't buy into the English tribalism in the way that we do. They want the style and the swagger which the club has always had.

 

I'll take your word for it Luke. But we both know that these two things have been absent for years now. So I guess my earlier argument is more accurate. Global glory-hunters are less plastic than we give them credit for.

 

And the Rolling Stones haven't made a decent record since the 60s (70s perhaps) but they can still sell out any venue you care to mention.

 

...difference being that I can and will stick on classics from their heyday; whereas I doubt the average United fan overseas sits down to watch the 1999 CL final when they're feeling nostalgic. And again, the music industry has comparatively very little to do with tribalism, much unlike football.

 

Colin appointed new manager of Rotherham. Some people really are addicted to football.

 

Start me up 1981?

 

Mmm....OK. I'll give you that one.

Only 35 years old. No "Get Off My Cloud" though

 

"Undercover of the Night" superb.