Koeman poll
- Thread starter Tintin
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Caulker and Ramirez are sunk costs. We pay them no matter what. There's no advantage to booting them off the team.
And they never play. If Koeman thought there were someone better than those two, he would be using them. Not for any youth development reason, but because they could help the team.
So you can complain about Koeman's evaluation of talent maybe, if you think Reed or others should play more.
But it's got nothing to do with Caulker and Ramirez or any other bench warmer who plays like 5 minutes every fourth game. Those guys are not keeping anyone off from playing as they don't play themselves.
And they never play. If Koeman thought there were someone better than those two, he would be using them. Not for any youth development reason, but because they could help the team.
So you can complain about Koeman's evaluation of talent maybe, if you think Reed or others should play more.
But it's got nothing to do with Caulker and Ramirez or any other bench warmer who plays like 5 minutes every fourth game. Those guys are not keeping anyone off from playing as they don't play themselves.
We actually need Ron to come out and say stuff like that and more positive stuff as well....he's come over as miserable lately....which sets tongues wagging. Sometimes a bit of play acting and drum banging is better for fans and the media than honesty.
According to Adam Blackmore, RK says he has no problems with the board and is having a meeting with them this afternoon regarding the future of the club.
Yes, but Poch is disloyal and felt above us imo, and so he would always have his bags packed ready to go. Koeman is showing a loyalty that I think needs to be repaid. No hidden messages or hints and gripes to Dutch magazines etc. when the media were talking up his prospects for Barcelona or the Dutch national job.
I don't feel this is a crisis on the pitch as yet, whether or not I like the (rumoured) direction it is going off-field or not. I have no doubt that given the chance he will turn this around and it is then, when things look up, that important decisions should be made. All discussion behind the scenes is hopefully on the football side for now.
Spin it - Poch is ambitious and felt let down when his main champion in the club left.
Putting aside any discussion on this thread about the larger picture, and using this response as a jump off (as opposed to questioning anything in it), a theoretical question: why do we care about academy players coming through? As soon as they make it to the first team and play well, they're gone. They're packed and ready to go even quicker than the likes of Mane - they don't have any of the shame of only having arrived and signed a year ago (yes, neither did Lovren, but in general, most signed players at least give two seasons before forcing a move), and probably feel like they've put in their shift for Saints, having been deprived of first team football for a while when they perceived themselves as ready/good enough. I haven't seen many (JWP seems to be the only exception - but because the offers aren't there, it's hard to know whether he would stay or go given the chance) do otherwise since our pre-League One Championship days. That then leaves us with lots of money to buy a very decent player as a replacement, but a massive gap usually between that new player and the next Academy player in their position.
This is how it will work whenever we get an Academy player good enough to help us achieve some ground in our on-pitch ambitions, so we are destined in any medium- or long-term scenario to have non-Academy players in all positions. Yes, someone like JWP does a good-but-unspectacular job and stays put, but 11 JWPs aren't going to progress us much beyond where we are now, or have been. Self-sustainability and less reliance on the transfer market are nice goals, but to get us to the point where we can resist teams poaching the best of our young homegrown players, I can't see a way to avoid using foreign transfers.
We need about the academy because it is a cheap source of talent. Probably THE cheapest. When a player leaves we can replace them for "free" with someone from our academy on low wages. Then when that academy player leaves we can sell them for huge profit.
A club our size cannot afford to shut off any cheap pipeline of talent.
Having said that, I'm in general agreement that the majority of posters here have overly optimistic views both about the quality of our current U21's and their perceived loyalty. If Juanmi or Romeu were whining about not getting enough playing time, would that perceived as Koeman's failing? So why is it that when the U21 parents are not happy, the perception is that Koeman is doing something wrong instead of that they are looking out for their children's careers #1, and the team a distant second?
Not that I blame the parents. It's a business. But I don't take the fact that Koeman thinks the U21's are not ready as a sign he doesn't like academy players, either. I doubt he's out there trying to lose games on purpose with a lesser-talented squad. I think he genuinely believes they aren't presently good enough. Which he may be wrong about. But that's different than what people seem to be accusing him of, which is not caring about player development.
Koeman has a pretty good track record of bringing through young players. I don't see the basis for believing that suddenly he no longer cares, as opposed to our young players simply not being good enough in his eyes.
A club our size cannot afford to shut off any cheap pipeline of talent.
Having said that, I'm in general agreement that the majority of posters here have overly optimistic views both about the quality of our current U21's and their perceived loyalty. If Juanmi or Romeu were whining about not getting enough playing time, would that perceived as Koeman's failing? So why is it that when the U21 parents are not happy, the perception is that Koeman is doing something wrong instead of that they are looking out for their children's careers #1, and the team a distant second?
Not that I blame the parents. It's a business. But I don't take the fact that Koeman thinks the U21's are not ready as a sign he doesn't like academy players, either. I doubt he's out there trying to lose games on purpose with a lesser-talented squad. I think he genuinely believes they aren't presently good enough. Which he may be wrong about. But that's different than what people seem to be accusing him of, which is not caring about player development.
Koeman has a pretty good track record of bringing through young players. I don't see the basis for believing that suddenly he no longer cares, as opposed to our young players simply not being good enough in his eyes.
Frappez une lumiere! (translation) Ou est le Tintin? Il y'a beaucoup de silence de his direction depuis nous avons gagner une game. Seulement une game, c'est vrai, mais surely worthy de comment de le grand pundit belgique?
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I hope there's 9 people on this board prepared to change their mind now. Strange one of them has gone terribly quiet!
I'm still undecided. If we can't beat Man U sack him