Nice try. Except I'm not pretending there are no problems with the western world or denying ot has anything to do with the western world
Mate, I'm not privy to what goes on in your mosque - And I accept that most mosques are not intolerant. But, the answer lies within, within your community. If people like ISIS are totally rejected by ordinary Muslims, then you need to come out and say so - loud and clear. I accept your word for what goes on in the average mosque, but as an 'outsider' I don't see enough of you guys standing up publicly against these fanatics and telling them publicly, '**** off, we don't want your hateful bile around here'
Nice try about what? I was being serious. He could start laying the blame on the West in the same way you seem to be at Islam. It's hardly balanced is it. I think we all have to look at ourselves. But anyway I dont think my efforts are going to make anyone take a step back and think for a second.
It won't do nothing to change matters though. The new recruits are not confused about how most feel about ISIS. That's why everything happens undercover. If they thought it was something every Muslim is interested in or most. I can guarantee you that they would hold propaganda speeches in mosques. However they don't. Maybe the Muslims could be louder so that those that are not Muslims can hear that ' we absolutely detest everything ISIS stands for ' they prey on the young for a reason. I get what you mean however in theory.
Apart from France selling arms to the biggest supporters of terrorism. 2012 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/07/france-funding-syrian-rebels?CMP=twt_gu "Large sums of cash have been delivered by French government proxies across the Turkish border to rebel commanders in the past month, diplomatic sources have confirmed. The money has been used to buy weapons inside Syria and to fund armed operations against loyalist forces." France literally sent some money to chip in for the bullets and bombs that massacred civilians. Not directly of course but their money was certainly being put where it was needed on the fighting front, and Al Nusra are the core of that front. Indirectly paying for terror attacks on your own country is pretty ****ing stupid. This is so ****ed up. This is the just the start. be safe folks.
I don't deny the west has its problems. He does deny Islam has any. His views are ridiculously narrow minded. How dare someone question Islam. How dare a discussion over the role a religion has to play in a religious terrorist group. Not sure what he's moaning at tbh.
I don't think anyone has denied the western element as a part of the cause though? not that I've read here anyway, I fully appreciate that factor in all this. Its clear 90odd percent of Muslims are perfectly normal law abiding humans, don't think anyone's said any different again. Tobes point about discussing Islam in general definitely has some truth to it, the government have made it almost taboo to question faiths and in my own experiences (I've had many living in London) Muslims are defensive when even discussing the most trivial of things regarding the religion, much more than all the Catholic and Christian people I've tried to wind up/discussed religion with anyway lol Basically I don't think anyone here has crossed the line. Not talking about it, or being afraid to speak,that's the worst thing to do.
With the greatest respect, you're not sure because you're not listening. You're so hell bent on your assertion that Islam is somehow responsible you're not taking in what he's saying. Being a muslim, the person who actually practises the faith, is he not allowed to say that while ISIS carry out their attacks in the name of his faith, they dont represent it at all? I could throw your argument back at you abd say... How dare someone defend Islam? I've argued with you enough about football. I'd rather not do so on this But I do think you'd both get a lot further if you listened to each other without taking offence. And that applies to Spurlock aswell.
All I will say is a picture of you holding a card saying #notinmyname does absolutely **** all. Its as laughable as people changing profile pictures. It does nothing but makes the person feel all warm and fuzzy, as if they have made a different in the world. In reality it achieves nothing. What is a moderate Muslim anyway? Its scary to think that a recent study in the middle east, regarding the conspiracy being peddled that Isis is a Zionist plot, is believed by 74% of the middle east. Sorry but thats ****ing insane. Too many Muslims buy into Islamic conspiracies that brainwash them into thinking the west is evil and out to get destroy them. They need to stop. Conspiracy theories are dangerous and the people who peddle this ****e are spreading hate.
He can say what he likes. However denying the obvious does him no favours. Isis is a part of Islam. Just as *****phile priests are part of Christianity. You can stick your head in the ground and ignore it or you can do something about it. Measures have been put in place to try and put and end to the child abuse issues in the catholic church. Action has been taken. Both from within and outside of the church. Nobody thinks all catholics are dirty *****philes and nobody thinks you are tarnishing all catholics when you talk about this criminal element.
I think everyone is arguing the same thing from different angles. At the heart of it. IS is an Islamic istitution. However it does not speak for all not even the majority of them. Most find IS abhorrent.
Mate I would agree with nearly all of that except what you said about Tobes. Most ppl who want to spotlight the religion can do so with a genuine and/or critical eye. I think that debate needs to be had. But the rhetoric Tobes uses about muslims on this thread and the nuclear bomb thread on the Liverpool board, it's clear he's already made up his mind and just wants to use current affairs to vent his dislike for muslims and/or their faith. His xenophobia shines through. If you try to engage with him (and even when you don't) his response is the usual "fack off you liberal public sector c*nt" Don't take my word for it, go check the first few pages of both threads. And now, many pages later he's making out that "all he was doing was questioning the links between thr faith and ISIS" to try and put a bit of respectability to it, yet whenever anyone tried to offer an opinion that didnt suit his agenda he turned into a vile and angry little bigot. On your overall point I think there has to be a genuine discussion about how/why extremists twist their interpretation of Islam to justify their abhorrent actions. And also to discuss what more muslims can do. I know muslims that I've had that discussion with. BUT if you start that discussion by saying "your religion Islam is somehow responsible for ISIS ", dont be surprised if you get their backs up, which sadly is what's happened on here a few times. And I think one or two do that deliberately.
Nonsense, the Islam you associate with all Muslims is 1700s Wahhabism. it comes from Saudi Arabia and it's core is Saudi Arabia. The Saudi Wahhabi leadership have called for a jihad against Russia just recently. Now wonder what the **** Prince Charles is doing in the very centre of this infestation of terrorism, Saudi Arabia. Arms deals got signed with Saudi Arabia by British military manufacturers the day after the Prince's visit. The US is completely in bed with the Saudis, as are the French. IS, Al Qaeda, Mujahadeed\Taliban, Mali, Libya where Wahhabi militants now run the death jungle that was once a country, the same ones who attacked a US consulate. This is the cancer that is spreading across the world by the Saudis United Arab Empirates and other guld states while being obscured by our very own media and Governments. Not "Islam". If any country should be "brought democracy" it is Saudi Arabia followed by several other gulf states. Saudio king only has his daughter under house arrest for years for protesting women's rights. Nice family
