International Thread Part Trois

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Archers Road said:
Think you'll find Alf Ramsey came in for pretty much constant criticism from fans and pundits. Obviously it abated for a while after 1966, but by 1970 he was the hapless whipping boy for everyone's disappointment again.

It really is a no win job, especially when supporters hold the England manager responsible when clubs won't cooperate.
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That is true, but then I used to wonder why he did get moaned at. He was extremely successful. The moans only started when England failed to qualify for tournaments, which was the 10 year period from after the 1970 World Cup to before the 1980 Euro Championship, when Ron Greenwood was manager. That was the era when Brian Clough was first put forward as a potential England manager. Instead of ignoring him totally they should have gone on bended knees pleading.for him to do the job. Then England's success rate, player and supporter attitude might have changed for the better.
 
Archers Road said:
By "passionate England team" do you mean chasing the ball for 90 minutes and racking up a few yellows?
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They could play with a little more focussed zip, but then we've had this question before. Teams that play with little confidence could be breaking their necks in effort and passion but it still looks awful. For me, England play without the essential confidence, swagger [arrogance], skill and they are tactically poor, at times. You could say it is because they don't get together for very long, but then it is the same for every international team.
 
TheSecondStain said:
They could play with a little more focussed zip, but then we've had this question before. Teams that play with little confidence could be breaking their necks in effort and passion but it still looks awful. For me, England play without the essential confidence, swagger [arrogance], skill and they are tactically poor, at times. You could say it is because they don't get together for very long, but then it is the same for every international team.
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Sometimes it is just about asking them to play like they do for their clubs instead of coaching their natural instincts out of them and trying to get them to do what they are uncomfortable doing.
 
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Island Saint said:
Sometimes it is just about asking them to play like they do for their clubs instead of coaching their natural instincts out of them and trying to get them to do what they are uncomfortable doing.
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I meant to add - this is after all the reason they are selected in the first place - how they play for their club (or not, as the case may be).
 
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Was reading in a paper today that the real problem for any England manager (football, rugby, cricket etc) is that the media and public expect us to be favourites and are then disappointed again and again. Perhaps we need realistic goals.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Was reading in a paper today that the real problem for any England manager (football, rugby, cricket etc) is that the media and public expect us to be favourites and are then disappointed again and again. Perhaps we need realistic goals.
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Slightly tongue in cheek, but as being amongst the highest paid players ( not their fault) should we not have high expectations. If I go to hospital for an operation I would expect the surgeon and other staff to perform to their usual high standard every time. That said I think our expectations are too high, which shows we overhype and overpay our players.
 
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English fans and the national side are a massive annoyance for me.

If someone's club side put on the exact same performance as the England team, they would be praised.
For example; say England v Lithuania was Saints v Championship team, everyone on here would be saying "we did well to break them down". But as its England, people say "we should have beaten them by more" etc.

Everyone has a negative mindset when it comes to the national team. They will never be as cohesive as a club team as they don't play together every week. (Plus, we aren't very good!) I will criticise the national side when it's warranted, but we have been very good during qualification, and all I hear and read is criticism.
 
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Island Saint said:
Slightly tongue in cheek, but as being amongst the highest paid players ( not their fault) should we not have high expectations. If I go to hospital for an operation I would expect the surgeon and other staff to perform to their usual high standard every time. That said I think are expectations are too high, which shoes we overhype and overpay our players.
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But a players wages for their club have absolutely no effect on their national performance. Their wages are based on supply and demand, and playing in the biggest (richest) league.

Many of the England players wear the shirt with pride and give their all - if they are playing in a lacklustre side it isn't their fault.
None of our team would get into most top ten sides.
If I was an England player I would probably end up hating England fans.
 
Osvaldorama said:
English fans and the national side are a massive annoyance for me.

If someone's club side put on the exact same performance as the England team, they would be praised.
For example; say England v Lithuania was Saints v Championship team, everyone on here would be saying "we did well to break them down". But as its England, people say "we should have beaten them by more" etc.

Everyone has a negative mindset when it comes to the national team. They will never be as cohesive as a club team as they don't play together every week. (Plus, we aren't very good!) I will criticise the national side when it's warranted, but we have been very good during qualification, and all I hear and read is criticism.
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Yep and people saying about how we've only played poor teams, you can only beat what's in front of you and 10/10 is good going. Also I'm pretty sure Switzerland got to knockout rounds of WC last year and there plenty who were predicting them to beat us twice... sometimes I feel like people want England to fail just so they can have a moan. Most annoying people are the ones who constantly say they don't give a **** about England, don't care etc. yet once we reach the knockout rounds of a tournament become the most patriotic fans ever!
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
Just looked at league details...England scored 31 goals and let in 3 giving a GD of +28. How is that not seen as excellent by everyone? We now have a series of games against top sides....that will be informative.
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I think this is where the players and manager will earn their corn. If we struggle against "top" teams, then that will show us our weaknesses. Of course, my cynical side says that these teams may not play to their full potential and save that for the Euros, so we may see a false dawning of hope, only to have it cruelly dashed next year .................
Yes, I'm a long-suffering England supporter ..................
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Daily Mail continuing their love in with Pochettino....praising his input in development of various England players including Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, JRod and Clyne. Not saying he had no effect on them (indeed several praise him for his help), but Saints had a rep for bringing players on, especially young players, before he got here.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Just looked at league details...England scored 31 goals and let in 3 giving a GD of +28. How is that not seen as excellent by everyone? We now have a series of games against top sides....that will be informative.
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Yes, pat on the back, but for a country the size of England with our resources etc. qualifying should be the bare minimum.
Especially in a qualifying group of tiny nations. Most of them have a smaller population than London.

Most supporters have reservations that the current set-up is capable of delivering more than this.
 
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