If Klopp joined tomorrow

[DirtyFrank]

do you think FSG would be willing to listen considering they changed some of their policies (sacked Comolli and scraped the DoF approach) to get Brod?

I hope so. I mean the new manager has some positives on his side. The entire existing squad is young and on the new wage structure but none of them have grabbed a chance to own those fat bonuses.

He also has depth in terms of "squad" I don't believe he would have the same clear out job that BR had (some will disagree).

So it should now be for a new manager (and us the fans acceptance there's another two years for him to get it right.) To target and pay what it will take to get the one or two WC targets a year.don't buy for the sake of it.

We shouldn't even abandon completely the buy young potential but it shouldn't be our primary plan in the next four or five Windows.

 

[DirtyFrank]

And if we manage to get those players and existing ones start performing at their level eg Coutinho? They can renegotiate their contracts to bring them up.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

Ultimatley, FSG are driven by only one set of results. Those on the balance sheet.

I fear that until numbers are down, everywhere, will they take action with regards to BR.

With a new stand to fill looming, they'll likely take action if we can't fill the current one! However, as tickets are released in blocks, it probably won't be until Christmas until they finally realise that people won't pay good money to watch sh*te.

However, if they make a change, then they will need to rethink their entire philosophy. It's not just BR that hasn't worked. The entire footballing side of the business is a bit of a laughing stock atm.

I imagine sponsorship revenue will tumble this year....frankly, there are better options for any brand to be associated with right now!....but again, this will take time to materialise on the balance sheet.

As for likely management candidates. You can forget the big names mentioned. Why would they take over at a club in apparent turmoil? With a management team that does not understand football remotely? With a half baked squad of kids, apparently bought with no purpose in mind.

And therein lies the problem. 2 years ago we had Suarez & Gerard at the club and had just got into the CL for the first time in years. Our chance to add real quality was then. Not now. We wasted our opportunity. Only a big named manager and a big budget (yes, much more than we have already spent) can bring that to the club now.....and one won't come without the other.

In short, FSG must fundamentally change before they get a new guy in or expect more of the same. A big name won't come unless that change is in place and even then they'll want a big budget and at least 3 years to get it right. Only then can we even think about competing for the top four or ever challenging for the league again.

It's not just the manager that has to change. We won't get Klopp or Anceloti....so who else is there?....and does that person have enough gravitas to (a) dictate to FSG who to buy/what needs to be done and (b) attract the very best talent?

The right strategy and tactical plans need to be executed off the pitch before we can even dream about it being executed on the pitch.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

I hope so. I mean the new manager has some positives on his side. The entire existing squad is young and on the new wage structure but none of them have grabbed a chance to own those fat bonuses.

He also has depth in terms of "squad" I don't believe he would have the same clear out job that BR had (some will disagree).

So it should now be for a new manager (and us the fans acceptance there's another two years for him to get it right.) To target and pay what it will take to get the one or two WC targets a year.don't buy for the sake of it.

We shouldn't even abandon completely the buy young potential but it shouldn't be our primary plan in the next four or five Windows.

I like the buy young policy but needs to be less strict, experience and guidance is important. Also, we need to buy the right youth too.

 

[DirtyFrank]

I like the buy young policy but needs to be less strict, experience and guidance is important. Also, we need to buy the right youth too.

I agree but our chances of making top four and above shouldn't be reliant on it. I think it's perfectly fine to trawl the 16-20 age bracket and have a low cost high turnover of players at that age to find the right ones. It's gambling too much on the 20-24 bracket for millions that's gone wrong with us. There's an expectation and pressure to put them in the first team.

I do like how BR has brought the talented hopefuls up to train with the first team early. It's one of his better ideas. When you listened to them talk about training with Suarez, Sturrudge, Gerrard etc.

But now they are training with people not much older than them and to be honest not much better..

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

I agree but our chances of making top four and above shouldn't be reliant on it. I think it's perfectly fine to trawl the 16-20 age bracket and have a low cost high turnover of players at that age to find the right ones. It's gambling too much on the 20-24 bracket for millions that's gone wrong with us. There's an expectation and pressure to put them in the first team.

I do like how BR has brought the talented hopefuls up to train with the first team early. It's one of his better ideas. When you listened to them talk about training with Suarez, Sturrudge, Gerrard etc.

But now they are training with people not much older than them and to be honest not much better..

I was listening to Talk Sport (again) the other day and Danny Higginbottom was talking about young players and the lack of leaders on the pitch. He was saying they are pampered from a young age, don't have to do the tasks young players used to do such as cleaning boots and they get a very lucrative contract at 17-18 years old nowadays. Therefore, they've never had to take responsibility for themselves, they are treated like kids their entire footballing life. That is then transferred to the pitch. When things are going wrong, they are looking at others to lead the way rather than looking to take control themselves.

He also said that every player as a contract that they look back on and think "that was my best contract". For players of yesteryear, those contracts were towards the end of their careers after working for years to get there. The lucrative contract contracts that players are getting at 17-18 years old are the ones now being viewed that way by most. They think they've made it and the hunger and desire dies a little, by the time that contract ends they have fallen behind and most end up dropping a level or two, sometimes more.

Basically, buying players in the 20-24 bracket sounds great but if you consider the above, they could also be the worst players to buy.


PS...I've not done his words he justice they deserve here, if you get chance so if you can listen to him. He was on around 4.30pm either yesterday or Tuesday. He spoke very well and made a lot of sense. Its unusual for no one to argue against an opinion on that show but nobody did that time.

PPS...yes, I realise I've wondered slightly off topic too

 

[DirtyFrank]

Ultimatley, FSG are driven by only one set of results. Those on the balance sheet.

I fear that until numbers are down, everywhere, will they take action with regards to BR.

With a new stand to fill looming, they'll likely take action if we can't fill the current one! However, as tickets are released in blocks, it probably won't be until Christmas until they finally realise that people won't pay good money to watch sh*te.

However, if they make a change, then they will need to rethink their entire philosophy. It's not just BR that hasn't worked. The entire footballing side of the business is a bit of a laughing stock atm.

I imagine sponsorship revenue will tumble this year....frankly, there are better options for any brand to be associated with right now!....but again, this will take time to materialise on the balance sheet.

As for likely management candidates. You can forget the big names mentioned. Why would they take over at a club in apparent turmoil? With a management team that does not understand football remotely? With a half baked squad of kids, apparently bought with no purpose in mind.

And therein lies the problem. 2 years ago we had Suarez & Gerard at the club and had just got into the CL for the first time in years. Our chance to add real quality was then. Not now. We wasted our opportunity. Only a big named manager and a big budget (yes, much more than we have already spent) can bring that to the club now.....and one won't come without the other.

In short, FSG must fundamentally change before they get a new guy in or expect more of the same. A big name won't come unless that change is in place and even then they'll want a big budget and at least 3 years to get it right. Only then can we even think about competing for the top four or ever challenging for the league again.

It's not just the manager that has to change. We won't get Klopp or Anceloti....so who else is there?....and does that person have enough gravitas to (a) dictate to FSG who to buy/what needs to be done and (b) attract the very best talent?

The right strategy and tactical plans need to be executed off the pitch before we can even dream about it being executed on the pitch.

As I've said in another thread. I've been happy with the fact that FSG came in and sorted out the commercial/business side as we had been left behind in the previous century!

I also didn't mind that while they were doing that they put self sufficiency limits on the transfer budget and went through a process to clear out overpaid under performing players and replace the bulk of the squad on a reduced wage budget and much younger one average.

Job done. But things have moved on and so does the transfer policy. The PL is awash with money over the next two years due to the new tv deals. This means we will still have to pay even more for the "prospects" than we did before.

It's also clear that after changing the scouting team twice in that time that we can not find enough undiscovered talent to meet the declared goals of the owners. i.e. top four, trophies etc

It's now time to say. "Here's our style of play, here are the top six targets playing that style and we will match or better their wages to come to us rather than our rivals."

If they don't come because we're not in the CL fair enough but for elite talent it should not be the case that they went to our rivals because they'll pay them more!!!

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

As I've said in another thread. I've been happy with the fact that FSG came in and sorted out the commercial/business side as we had been left behind in the previous century!

I also didn't mind that while they were doing that they put self sufficiency limits on the transfer budget and went through a process to clear out overpaid under performing players and replace the bulk of the squad on a reduced wage budget and much younger one average.

Job done. But things have moved on and so does the transfer policy. The PL is awash with money over the next two years due to the new tv deals. This means we will still have to pay even more for the "prospects" than we did before.

It's also clear that after changing the scouting team twice in that time that we can not find enough undiscovered talent to meet the declared goals of the owners. i.e. top four, trophies etc

It's now time to say. "Here's our style of play, here are the top six targets playing that style and we will match or better their wages to come to us rather than our rivals."

If they don't come because we're not in the CL fair enough but for elite talent it should not be the case that they went to our rivals because they'll pay them more!!!

In the early years, we missed out on plenty of our targets doe to money. Most of them have been misses. But that was when we had world class players in our fold. Every player worth having has side stepped us, despite is willing to pay the going rate. There is not one instance where I can remember otherwise.

There is a reason to this and it's not money or geography....

People in football talk. They know that once we lost Suarez, we lost everything that took us to 2nd that season. Gerrard was on his last legs. Rodgers was naive beyond question. We'd peaked and there was only one way we were heading. Peter Cech's agent, said as much when we were sniffing around him.

If you want to be a big team, you have to think big. Big manager, big players, big stadium, big investment, big risks, big rewards.....FSG are a typical East Coast risk averse corporation. They won't gamble. They'll stay conservative. They'll hold onto a strategy that's failing, determined to make it work. But it can't work. Because football is unlike any other business on the planet and until they get this, we'll continue to fail.

The only thing that will force change is $$$

When there are less of these, they'll have to change. Unfortunately, just a change of coach won't cut it. Everything has to change or it's more of the same Imo

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

If we change manager, I'll have to re-do the image in my signature

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

In the early years, we missed out on plenty of our targets doe to money. Most of them have been misses. But that was when we had world class players in our fold. Every player worth having has side stepped us, despite is willing to pay the going rate. There is not one instance where I can remember otherwise.

There is a reason to this and it's not money or geography....

People in football talk. They know that once we lost Suarez, we lost everything that took us to 2nd that season. Gerrard was on his last legs. Rodgers was naive beyond question. We'd peaked and there was only one way we were heading. Peter Cech's agent, said as much when we were sniffing around him.

If you want to be a big team, you have to think big. Big manager, big players, big stadium, big investment, big risks, big rewards.....FSG are a typical East Coast risk averse corporation. They won't gamble. They'll stay conservative. They'll hold onto a strategy that's failing, determined to make it work. But it can't work. Because football is unlike any other business on the planet and until they get this, we'll continue to fail.

The only thing that will force change is $$$

When there are less of these, they'll have to change. Unfortunately, just a change of coach won't cut it. Everything has to change or it's more of the same Imo

We are willing to pay the going rate on transfer fees, we are not willing to pay the going rate on wages. Even when Suarez got his bumper pay increase (to a rumoured £180k per week) he was still short of the top earners in the league!

I've never bought into the geography stuff too much. I'm sure some players will be influenced but I think it will be a minority. Man Utd and Man City get top players, we have in the past too.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

At this point we're going to keep losing even if Rodgers does everything right.

If he picks the best team and the best strategy we're still going to be piss poor... Why? Because we have a losing mentality now. The team has got the mentality now that we're Crap. I don't think there is anything Rodgers can do to change that.

A new manager with a new optimism would get better results even picking the same players as Rodgers and strategy.

The players need a change. They're in a rut.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

We are willing to pay the going rate on transfer fees, we are not willing to pay the going rate on wages. Even when Suarez got his bumper pay increase (to a rumoured £180k per week) he was still short of the top earners in the league!

I've never bought into the geography stuff too much. I'm sure some players will be influenced but I think it will be a minority. Man Utd and Man City get top players, we have in the past too.

Hence why we buy kids. Rough diamonds who our coach is renowned for developing and bringing through the ranks....just ask Sterling

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Hence why we buy kids. Rough diamonds who our coach is renowned for developing and bringing through the ranks....just ask Sterling

Hence why we buy kids. Rough diamonds who our coach is renowned for developing and bringing through the ranks....just ask Sterling

Yep, FSG want cheap wages and a profit on resale too. Only way you get both is by buying youngsters and improving them. We've had a few successes with Suarez and Sterling, Sturridge and Coutinho will probably be good examples too once they leave.

 

[Stan]

Breaking News on Sky Sports, Klopp hasn't been approached by Liverpool.

How is that news? Nothing's happened!

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Breaking News on Sky Sports, Klopp hasn't been approached by Liverpool.

How is that news? Nothing's happened!

Technically, it's breaking what is considered to be news rules

 

[DirtyFrank]

Sterling epitomizes perfectly what Gerrez was talking about. Gets, as a very young player his opportunity in the first team, gets bigged up by a manager, gets offered a decent contract and then believes he's done it all.

Could a bigger manager have slapped him down more easily, one who's actually won things? Probably. Will some of that arrogance be held in check now he's at a team where those other players surrounding him have been successful recently? Maybe.

But I'm not sure this one was Rodgers fault other than not having that reputation and success as weight behind him.

I just think Sterling is a prick who thought rightly or wrongly he was too big for our club.

 

[DirtyFrank]

So if they were both willing who would folks rather have? Ancelotti or Klopp?

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Sterling epitomizes perfectly what Gerrez was talking about. Gets, as a very young player his opportunity in the first team, gets bigged up by a manager, gets offered a decent contract and then believes he's done it all.

Could a bigger manager have slapped him down more easily, one who's actually won things? Probably. Will some of that arrogance be held in check now he's at a team where those other players surrounding him have been successful recently? Maybe.

But I'm not sure this one was Rodgers fault other than not having that reputation and success as weight behind him.

I just think Sterling is a prick who thought rightly or wrongly he was too big for our club.

Sterling is the perfect example. And yes, he's also a prick but that's what money and fame at such a young age does isn't it?

The thing I find most frustrating is that Raheem seems to have regained the form that put him in the spot light as part of SaSaS initially. That tells me he he was in a strop and not trying for us last year. Remember, he was getting £35k per week as a eighteen year old with us too. Just think about that for a second... THIRTY-FIVE THOUSAND POUND A WEEK AT EIGHTEEN!

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

So if they were both willing who would folks rather have? Ancelotti or Klopp?

Klopp. Ancelotti is great but is only ever going to be a short term option. Klopp is a better fit with the club and FSG. The committee would still need to go mind.

Edit: thought Ancelotti was older than 56, he's got ten years left him in yet then.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Did Jimmy post about Graham Beecrofts claims FSG had already decided to get rid of BR before last night?

Thought he did but can't find it as we seem to spread out over quite a few threads on this subject lol.