Off Topic Jeremy Corbyn

[Garlic Klopp]

As he stands as much chance of getting to number 10 as Trump has of becoming President I suspect he can promise anything he wants.

I would just like there to be at least two parties competing at the next election. Suppose the best we can hope for is no party gets an overall majority, because I can only see the Tories doing that.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

I suspect he would finance all his policies by a combination of tax rises and printing money. The older ones on the board can remember 98% tax rate under Labour for the top earners in the Sixties, and surprise, surprise lots of the top earners left the country so we got no tax at all from them.

It will be back to the politics of envy and animal farm type leadership. Can anyone name a very left wing state that is a success?

I think the biggest issue facing the UK atm is it's debt and borrowing.

Printing money just makes it worse without the goods or services to back the extra money, but on the other hand it increases international competitiveness but lowers the worth of your salary so some deflation would ne nice.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

Well his plans so far seem to be get extra cash by taxing the rich more.
Which I am all in favour of theoretically.

But then you have to answer
a) Will it generate enough cash
and
b) will it cause a mass exodus of the rich from Britain.

You do make good points. I agree in principle but we need to look at how things are planned to be achieved.

A Venezuelan socialist model would be an epic disaster. For example, they made it law that a bottle of water and bogroll were human rights.. so they forced the price so low that no retailer would sell them as they make a loss, the result was bottled water and bogroll were almost impossible to buy.

This is socialism gone nuts where a government is utterly disconnected from reality, this is the brush they are trying to paint Corbyn with.

The Mondragon company in Spain, is socialism that works.

The main point for me is tuition fees. School is free here and free, actually free education leads to a better educated population as well as a social expectation of going through further education after school, it creates a norm where having a degree is the average expectation for a population. It also gives anyone an opportunity to be successful.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

If labour voters want out of the EU and NATO then.. isn't that how it works, Corbyn represents what those who elected him want? Aren't we always bitching that they do not serve us? And it is vastly more expensive now too

Renationalisation of energy definitely, and transport is run just as badly by private companies like Virgin as it is by state bureaus.

Scrapping tuition fees are the corner stone of equality. Fees create inequality, have's and have nots.

It is how you go about these projects that is the substance, not just stating htem as one line as above and judging them, the plan is what matters everything else is hyperbole, one needs to look at how he plans to do these things

And it costs more, ffs! Even accounting for inflation, the subsidy for the railways is 120% more, per passenger and freight mile travelled, than it was under BR. And since 1994, over £25bn of that subsidy has been siphoned off into the profits of the private rail franchises. God knows what the late, unlamented, ramshackle BR could have done with those levels of subsidy, but suffice to say that in 1993, the last year before privatisation, the French ploughed more money into the paris metro than we did into our whole rail network: that's if you discount the £100m's pumped into 'management consultants' and lawyers in the run-up to privatisation (who all gave large donation to the Tory party, and then the Labour party when they were in power). And BR was widely recognised to be the most cost efficient, if not cost effective, subsidised railway in western Europe.

That's parochial about the railways, but I have family and friends who have worked in water, education and health with similar (even worse) stories to tell, and the tragedy is that Labour spent 18 years at the controls of this robber baron gravy train and did **** all to stop it carrying on. No more.

And even though we'll never get elected, we won't have to play the game of Red Tories any more.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

And it costs more, ffs! Even accounting for inflation, the subsidy for the railways is 120% more, per passenger and freight mile travelled, than it was under BR. And since 1994, over £25bn of that subsidy has been siphoned off into the profits of the private rail franchises. God knows what the late, unlamented, ramshackle BR could have done with those levels of subsidy, but suffice to say that in 1993, the last year before privatisation, the French ploughed more money into the paris metro than we did into our whole rail network: that's if you discount the £100m's pumped into 'management consultants' and lawyers in the run-up to privatisation (who all gave large donation to the Tory party, and then the Labour party when they were in power). And BR was widely recognised to be the most cost efficient, if not cost effective, subsidised railway in western Europe.

That's parochial about the railways, but I have family and friends who have worked in water, education and health with similar (even worse) stories to tell, and the tragedy is that Labour spent 18 years at the controls of this robber baron gravy train and did **** all to stop it carrying on. No more.

And even though we'll never get elected, we won't have to play the game of Red Tories any more.

Well put Le Dong.

If the non voting masses can be mobilised election is possible. Tories depend absolutely depend on voter apathy of the "lower classes."

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

Actually Brand telling people not to vote helps the Tories I wonder ..

 

[Bodinki]

So the purpose of renationalising them is to control the train fees right?
How is that going to happen without increased taxes to subsidise this, or a drop in the quality of service?

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

So the purpose of renationalising them is to control the train fees right?
How is that going to happen without increased taxes to subsidise this, or a drop in the quality of service?

I don't think it is about controlling fees.

Transport and energy are profit making enterprises. They if run properly make money for the state. Why can't a gov hire people of skill to run these things, without nepotism

 

[afcftw]

I don't think it is about controlling fees.

Transport and energy are profit making enterprises. They if run properly make money for the state. Why can't a gov hire people of skill to run these things, without nepotism

Yep I'm sure the government would run the energy companies with the same efficiency they run the NHS

 

[Bodinki]

I don't think it is about controlling fees.

Transport and energy are profit making enterprises. They if run properly make money for the state. Why can't a gov hire people of skill to run these things, without nepotism

Because the people of skill will prefer to work for the profit making companies, because they make more money, and therefore pay more.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I don't think it is about controlling fees.

Transport and energy are profit making enterprises. They if run properly make money for the state. Why can't a gov hire people of skill to run these things, without nepotism

See East Coast for an example. The sitting franchise holders gave the keys back in 2009, and a state-run franchise had the temerity to make over £1bn for the public purse, whilst keeping fares and costs (including staffing) down

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31680914

rather nails the ****ing lie about the efficiencies of privatisation, doesn't it?

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

Yep I'm sure the government would run the energy companies with the same efficiency they run the NHS

You mean the current government and it predecessors.

Part of the problem is and was is was almost impossible to fire state employees. Change that.
Corruption was imo the biggest factor in failing state services and remains a problem today. Vast sums are swallowed up and have you ever seen the head of any state run enterprise in rags. Yet here we have the possible leader of the labour party.. in rags quote the media as if that is a bad thing

We need a shift away from the neoliberal ideology that Thatcher brought in which as since infected all parties. Feeding the rich more so more scraps fall of their table for us to scrounge is proven to not work

The Tories started the UK on the debt cycle that has led to 95% of GDP in debt. Selling off every possible profit making asset, that belong to YOU the voter.. only increases the need to borrow in future

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Yep I'm sure the government would run the energy companies with the same efficiency they run the NHS

the most cost-inefficient parts of the NHS are those parts being provided by private companies. Have you seen the figures for bank nursing and freelance consultants?

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

Because the people of skill will prefer to work for the profit making companies, because they make more money, and therefore pay more.

That is the reason used to give the bankers 100 billion in bonuses since the 2008 crash which was funded by 100 billion in cuts to services since 2008, cut services give banks money.

It's neoliberal thinking.

To flesh this out..
Most school leavers with skills and degrees are now taking up unskilled jobs. There are not enough new jobs being created to accomodate the school leavers every year never mind the already under or unemployed. Never mind enough skilled jobs for skilled people

So as things stand there is a large surplus of skilled people who cannot find jobs to match their skills. There is plenty of skilled people out there to do these jobs mate.

The skilled people you talk of, what did they achieve in 2008? Brought the country to it's economic knees is what

 

[afcftw]

You mean the current government and it predecessors.

Part of the problem is and was is was almost impossible to fire state employees. Change that.
Corruption was imo the biggest factor in failing state services and remains a problem today. Vast sums are swallowed up and have you ever seen the head of any state run enterprise in rags. Yet here we have the possible leader of the labour party.. in rags quote the media as if that is a bad thing

We need a shift away from the neoliberal ideology that Thatcher brought in which as since infected all parties. Feeding the rich more so more scraps fall of their table for us to scrounge is proven to not work

The Tories started the UK on the debt cycle that has led to 95% of GDP in debt. Selling off every possible profit making asset, that belong to YOU the voter.. only increases the need to borrow in future

Labour were quite happy to sell off and **** public assets too. The sell off of our gold reserves and PFI spring to mind.

 

[afcftw]

the most cost-inefficient parts of the NHS are those parts being provided by private companies. Have you seen the figures for bank nursing and freelance consultants?

I didn't say it should be privatised, just made a tongue in cheek comment about how poorly run certain parts of the public sector are. A more fair comparison though is probably a private health facility as opposed to the private parts of the NHS. And I'd imagine most private patients get seen far quicker and receive a higher level of service (thou of course the flip side if this is having to pay for it!)

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I didn't say it should be privatised, just made a tongue in cheek comment about how poorly run certain parts of the public sector are. A more fair comparison though is probably a private health facility as opposed to the private parts of the NHS. And I'd imagine most private patients get seen far quicker and receive a higher level of service (thou of course the flip side if this is having to pay for it!)[/QUOTE]

Duh!

 

[Bodinki]

That is the reason used to give the bankers 100 billion in bonuses since the 2008 crash which was funded by 100 billion in cuts to services since 2008, cut services give banks money.

It's neoliberal thinking.

To flesh this out..
Most school leavers with skills and degrees are now taking up unskilled jobs. There are not enough new jobs being created to accomodate the school leavers every year never mind the already under or unemployed. Never mind enough skilled jobs for skilled people

So as things stand there is a large surplus of skilled people who cannot find jobs to match their skills. There is plenty of skilled people out there to do these jobs mate.

The skilled people you talk of, what did they achieve in 2008? Brought the country to it's economic knees is what

Have to agree with that to be honest.
Bankers bonuses has been the biggest injustice, politically, in my life time.
It was ****ing insane, that in a period of relative austerity, when they are cutting the benefits of hard working families to make up the deficit, that bankers were still reeling in billions in bonuses.
I am all for clamping down on benefits cheats.
But the fact is that most of the benefit money goes to OAPS.
A cap on child benefit was excellent though , I have to say. Sick of these loose legged skanks ****ting out sproggs like a kid factory and expecting the tax payer to stump up for their promiscuity.

 

[Treble]

I thought Corbyn gave a confident and honest speech after winning. It's actually refreshing to hear the leader of a major political party saying what he/she believes in. I think it's a mistake for anyone to write him off. I still feel he will appeal to many more ppl in this country (particularly the disinfranchised from politics) than many defeatists seem to think.

 

[Tobes]

I think the biggest issue facing the UK atm is it's debt and borrowing.

Printing money just makes it worse without the goods or services to back the extra money, but on the other hand it increases international competitiveness but lowers the worth of your salary so some deflation would ne nice.

You know **** all about this subject.

You speak about QE as if it's still an ongoing process in the UK

Our debt isn't a critical issue either as it's serviceable