Match Day Thread PL: Arsenal vs Liverpool

[saintanton]

poor saint..

you've not realised that we are in 6th BECAUSE our players have this mentality.

Oh really? So it's not because they're not good enough then- it's simply that their mentality is wrong?
I've obviously been misreading these pages for the last 4 years, then.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

If we play well and batter them we'll lose. If we get dominated but get stuck in, we might nick it.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Oh really? So it's not because they're not good enough then- it's simply that their mentality is wrong?
I've obviously been misreading these pages for the last 4 years, then.

To be fair, I think there is a correlation.

We've signed a lot of players from mid table PL clubs - Enrique, Henderson, Downing, Adam, Benteke, Lovren, Lallana, Lambert, Carroll, Borini.

None of whom have actually achieved anything in their careers except excel at a low level.

Now I don't mean to turn this into another Rodgers vs Committee debate but to use the following players as an example:

- Sturridge had grown up at Chelsea and City. He was around very good players and knew the expectations that come with playing for a big club.

- Coutinho. At 20, he had already played for Inter Milan (when they were still half decent), played for a big club in Brazil and was touted as the next wonderkid of that country, which is a massive pressure on such a young player. Again, he knew pressure and expectations.

- Now with Sakho, Moreno, Markovic, Can - I believe all have had experience of CL football, most of won a title be it league or European competition.

Now that's not saying committee are perfect because they also signed Aspas and Migs (who isn't half bad).

But there is certainly a pattern of which players tend to underperform at this club.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

To be fair, I think there is a correlation.

We've signed a lot of players from mid table PL clubs - Enrique, Henderson, Downing, Adam, Benteke, Lovren, Lallana, Lambert, Carroll, Borini.

None of whom have actually achieved anything in their careers except excel at a low level.

Now I don't mean to turn this into another Rodgers vs Committee debate but to use the following players as an example:

- Sturridge had grown up at Chelsea and City. He was around very good players and knew the expectations that come with playing for a big club.

- Coutinho. At 20, he had already played for Inter Milan (when they were still half decent), played for a big club in Brazil and was touted as the next wonderkid of that country, which is a massive pressure on such a young player. Again, he knew pressure and expectations.

- Now with Sakho, Moreno, Markovic, Can - I believe all have had experience of CL football, most of won a title be it league or European competition.

Now that's not saying committee are perfect because they also signed Aspas and Migs (who isn't half bad).

But there is certainly a pattern of which players tend to underperform at this club.

I've said this before but, do you only expect us to sign players from bigger clubs than us then?

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I've said this before but, do you only expect us to sign players from bigger clubs than us then?

Not necessarily bigger club but I rather we signed players who understand real pressure of being expected to win every game, or experience of winning titles etc.

Markovic for example had won league titles at Partizan - not a big club in comparison to Liverpool but that mentality of winning is a big thing IMO.

If we are going to buy a player from a smaller club who has limited experience of top flight football, then they need to be exceptional and show it for 18-24 months. Firmino is a good example of this.

EDIT - and when I say 'exceptional', their stats and performances need to be at the highest level. Some would say Lallana was exceptional at Soton - he wasn't. Nowhere near. His performances were good but not top class. Firmino's 13/14 season was brilliant and his performances and stats were up there with the best around Europe.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Even Can has played CL football and played at a higher level with Leverkusen - his experience is far more relevant and valuable than anything than say, Lallana has done despite Adam being 5-6 years older and playing more matches.

I don't think it's a coincidence that these young players (with the exception of Markovic) have been able to come and play without fear and haven't looked out of place IMO, compared to their older counterparts.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Not necessarily bigger club but I rather we signed players who understand real pressure of being expected to win every game, or experience of winning titles etc.

Markovic for example had won league titles at Partizan - not a big club in comparison to Liverpool but that mentality of winning is a big thing IMO.

If we are going to buy a player from a smaller club who has limited experience of top flight football, then they need to be exceptional and show it for 18-24 months. Firmino is a good example of this.

But not every single player we sign will be from a equal or better team than us. The players you listed only represent a small proportion of players signed in the last four years (you mentioned Downing who was signed four years ago).

 

[ademuzzy]

Very happy if that is true but I sincerely doubt it

Have faith.

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[ademuzzy]

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[ademuzzy]

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[Jimmy Squarefoot]

But not every single player we sign will be from a equal or better team than us. The players you listed only represent a small proportion of players signed in the last four years (you mentioned Downing who was signed four years ago).

We should be buying the from the following pools:

- Second stringers/fringe players at the top clubs who want regular football

- First teamers at similar clubs. We should be able to attract them because we can offer substantially more money than European counterparts.

- Exceptional talents at any club

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

But not every single player we sign will be from a equal or better team than us. The players you listed only represent a small proportion of players signed in the last four years (you mentioned Downing who was signed four years ago).

Look at the players that Rodgers personally pursued since he's been here and you'll see there is a common trend.

He values PL experience higher than a youngster who has played CL, or won domestic titles in other countries. And it's no coincidence that the majority of these players have been failures.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Look at the players that Rodgers personally pursued since he's been here and you'll see there is a common trend.

He values PL experience higher than a youngster who has played CL, or won domestic titles in other countries. And it's no coincidence that the majority of these players have been failures.

I'd need a confirmed list to be able to do that

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I'd need a confirmed list to be able to do that

Suggest you read the articles of Tony Barrett (Times), Dom King (Mail), Andy Hunter (Guardian), James Pearce (Echo) who all confirm what I've been saying.

But let's not digress - mentality is an issue because we seem to buy a lot of players who simply don't know what is required to play for a club that is expected to win.

Of course, it's not an exact science. Using Clyne as an example, I think he is a good player with no top level experience.Technically, he's good enough for Top 4. Does he have the mentality - well we'll have to wait and find out.

And to be fair, Milner does have the big club experience.

 

[astro]

In the stiffs then......

Gotcha

[HASHTAG]#bigclubs[/HASHTAG] compete all season in multiple competitions so plan to have different players peak throughout the year

[HASHTAG]#smallclubs[/HASHTAG] just play their least worst 11 every week, hope to get 40 points by April, then go on holiday

 

[Master Yoda]

Lallana apparently injured...

Firmino in? Markovic?

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Lallana apparently injured...

Firmino in? Markovic?

Firmino will be the one to come. Hopefully Markovic can make the bench. His pace can help us on the counter.

 

[saintanton]

Suggest you read the articles of Tony Barrett (Times), Dom King (Mail), Andy Hunter (Guardian), James Pearce (Echo) who all confirm what I've been saying.

But let's not digress - mentality is an issue because we seem to buy a lot of players who simply don't know what is required to play for a club that is expected to win.

Of course, it's not an exact science. Using Clyne as an example, I think he is a good player with no top level experience.Technically, he's good enough for Top 4. Does he have the mentality - well we'll have to wait and find out.

And to be fair, Milner does have the big club experience.

Obviously mentality plays are a part- but with finer margins than I was talking about. I was really only answering the Gooner who was surprised at how negative some were being on here, and I was just taking the opportunity to have another gratuitous dig at the pessimists.
Time enough to be miserable if and when we lose (and I'll be amongst those who are), but I won't feel bad about it until it happens.
Come 8 o'clock I'll have plucked my head out of the sand, donned my rose-tinted glasses and looking forward to the win.
[HASHTAG]#rightmentality[/HASHTAG]

 

[LuisDiazgamechanger]

Like this in London all day.

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Pitch going to be slippery.

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

I wonder if it will be Can or Lucas who come in for Henderson, assuming Henderson is out.

Mignolet
Clyne Skrtel Lovren Gomez
Milner Can
Ibe Firmino Coutinho
Benteke
?​

Big day for Gomez.