Right Back

[fatletiss]

What Cedric would have offered going forward would have more than made up for his lack of height to defend set pieces with. I imagine he'd have caused them all sorts of trouble getting forward. Especially with us being at home. Playing Yoshida made it really difficult to get into good positions to cross the ball and get Mane in the game. Their defence wasn't worried about Yoshida at all and could focus almost solely on Mane. Our team is big enough as it is with two tall strong DMs and a tall strong centre forward. There was no real need to play Yoshida at right back. It was key that Pelle had a great game or we would have been completely out of ideas going forward.

Oh dear. So Jayrod and Mane didn't get into any decent positions in that game and cause any problems for them?

How can you say that Cedric's possible forward play would have more than made up for his lack of height to defend set pieces? They still would have had free-kicks, throw ins and corners. That's saying that it would have been ok to let them be more threatening at set-pieces. They could have got two or three away goals, which would have been a disaster.

I know you'll react aggressively TinTin as you usually do, but I think that post is nonsense. The only thing I can read as true is that Cedric would have offered more going forward.

 

[tomw24]

And that was because Yoshida was RB? Give over!

Surely fans can we that we played a team that has build its reputation in set pieces with big physical olayers and so Ron decided not to play a tiny RB.

If our fans can't see or understand that then no wonder I shake my head at half the stuff or read and hear.

Well it didn't work too well when they actually bothered to attack as a couple of long throws caused absolute mayhem in our penalty area. Yoshida did not look comfortable at all in the first half and he only was in the 2nd because they weren't interested in a 2nd goal and just timewasted all half.

 

[fatletiss]

I understand the decision, but I still think it was the wrong one personally.

A) How will Cedric learn to cope with a more physical game if he doesn't get given a chance
B) We were at home, we should have been more positive
C) If he doesn't trust him, why did we buy him?

A) in a game where conceding away goals isn't as important and there is nothing wrong with tactically changing a team to suit the opposition - he isn't signed as our RB for every game - it's about the squad.

B) league game, I agree. Euro game where away goals are crucial against a team the whole world knows plays percentage football and relies heavily on set-pieces, no. Correct decision by Ron for me.

C) really? Come on. We've played two league games and two euro games before he left him out. Where the hell is there a sign of Ron not trusting him. I'm sorry but that's a tad melodramatic.

Ron made a tactical decision based on our opponents. I think that was fairly sensible and I really can't understand the drama its created.

 

[fatletiss]

Well it didn't work too well when they actually bothered to attack as a couple of long throws caused absolute mayhem in our penalty area. Yoshida did not look comfortable at all in the first half and he only was in the 2nd because they weren't interested in a 2nd goal and just timewasted all half.

So you are telling me that Cedric would have dealt with them better?

Sorry Tom and others, I am stunned by this I really am. I was accused of being self righteous the other day when I said some fans just don't "get" it. Sign me up for the self righteous club please because some of you just don't get it!!

I don't see the issue. This was the first game against them. They caused some problems from very well worked set-pieces. Ron tactically played Maya instead of Cedric in the first leg of a tie at home to be a little cautious as there's be nothing worse than blowing it in the first game. I thought we were very comfortable in the second half after we saw what they had to offer and I am very confident that we'll win fairly comfortably away. Ron may even decide to play Cedric away.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Of what I've seen of them, I prefer Cuco to Cedric.

One game!? Think we needs to give that comparison a wee bit more time before we make it!

 

[tomw24]

We were at home against an inferior side. Yoshida at right back smacked of negativity.

 

[fatletiss]

We were at home against an inferior side. Yoshida at right back smacked of negativity.

Or ...

We're at home against a team that was Champions of their league, who have a reputation of excellence at set-pieces with big, physical players. Yoshida at Right back smacks of sensible tactics in a two-legged game.

I wonder what you'd have said if one of their tall players popped up with a far post header over Cedric?

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I have to offer support here for FLT and others supporting Maya.
I sit roughly in line with the RB position in the Chapel and therefore had a clear view 1st half of two issues mentioned.
I think our opinions are sometimes different because of where we sit and trying to take in the whole game live. This is why teams video and analyse afterwards.

1. Whenever Maya had the ball wide there was no option on the wing, everyone was central.
So he either had to go back to Jose or try a risky ball into the middle.
Once he'd done that someone usually showed up on the wing where they were now pointless as the ball was heading to the left and Matty or had been lost centrally. (When it did go to Matty he then had the same issue and usually had to go back again to Caulker. This sequence often ended up with a pass back to Stek and a long ball to Pelle.

2. Long throws on their left. The key man was JWP who was in front of their target man Sparv and isn't tall enough, doesn't have Long's spring or enough physical presence for that job.

And the goal happened because of Victor and Romeu being out of position. Victor was 2m ahead of the guy who made the cross when she should have been on top of him and I don't know where Romeu was, but he should have been near to Sparv.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Or ...

We're at home against a team that was Champions of their league, who have a reputation of excellence at set-pieces with big, physical players. Yoshida at Right back smacks of sensible tactics in a two-legged game.

I wonder what you'd have said if one of their tall players popped up with a far post header over Cedric?

I could just as easily say "what if Yoshida gets outpaced, a cross comes in and we concede". There were a couple of times where he looked uncomfortable and let his runner go, although I do agree that generally he played well by his poor standards.
We are going to have to agree to disagree I think. I believe Cedric is good enough to have withstood the pressure, and should have been given his chance like Targett was, but you (and Ron) feel differently. Fair enough. I might be being blinded by my general dislike for Yoshida to be honest.

 

[Jos Say No]

Oh dear. So Jayrod and Mane didn't get into any decent positions in that game and cause any problems for them?

How can you say that Cedric's possible forward play would have more than made up for his lack of height to defend set pieces? They still would have had free-kicks, throw ins and corners. That's saying that it would have been ok to let them be more threatening at set-pieces. They could have got two or three away goals, which would have been a disaster.

I know you'll react aggressively TinTin as you usually do, but I think that post is nonsense. The only thing I can read as true is that Cedric would have offered more going forward.

FLT, I made a similar point earlier in the thread. I get your point about the aerial threat still being there, but I think our attacking threat would have been greater as Cedric or Martina would have helped to take their full back out of the equation for Mane to have a bit more space.

It's a bit of a catch 22 really, we shore up the defence to stop away goals but in doing so potentially reduce the threat we have in attack. I still think we should have enough to get them in the away leg though, their goal seemed to come from a moment of us falling asleep from where I was in the Itchen (haven't had the benefit of replays or highlights so happy to be told otherwise)

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

People are so funny. When we signed Martina there were so many that were up in arms and at best the concession was that he could only possibly be there as cover in extreme emergencies. Now people are calling for him to start ahead of the (reliable if limited) Yoshida on the flanks, and some asking for him to start ahead of Cedic!

I'm as guilty as anyone of the occasional dabble with being fickle, but c'mon guys, let's allow things to develop here!

 

[fatletiss]

I could just as easily say "what if Yoshida gets outpaced, a cross comes in and we concede". There were a couple of times where he looked uncomfortable and let his runner go, although I do agree that generally he played well by his poor standards.
We are going to have to agree to disagree I think. I believe Cedric is good enough to have withstood the pressure, and should have been given his chance like Targett was, but you (and Ron) feel differently. Fair enough. I might be being blinded by my general dislike for Yoshida to be honest.

We didn't concede a goal with Yoshida getting outpaced though did we?

The key point for me is that I just don't understand why fans are "moaning" ( or whatever people want to call it) about one team selection that didn't really affect the game or the outcome. I don't get that at all.

We still had loads of attaches down the right. Mane out crosses in from that side as did Maya. I'd find it far more understanding of people asked why we didn't make use of the acres of space in their RB position during the first half particularly. There was masses of space and we didn't use it at all.

I think people just like moaning for moaning sake. It's half-time and were drawing 1-1.

 

[Osvaldorama]

FLT, I made a similar point earlier in the thread. I get your point about the aerial threat still being there, but I think our attacking threat would have been greater as Cedric or Martina would have helped to take their full back out of the equation for Mane to have a bit more space.

It's a bit of a catch 22 really, we shore up the defence to stop away goals but in doing so potentially reduce the threat we have in attack. I still think we should have enough to get them in the away leg though, their goal seemed to come from a moment of us falling asleep from where I was in the Itchen (haven't had the benefit of replays or highlights so happy to be told otherwise)

Having watched their goal back, it came from confusion between Romeu and Wanyama. They both got sucked in to pressure the ball at the same time. You can see Vic look round and expect someone else to be covering that central area, and then see's no one there but Sparv. One of the issues of having a brand new CM partnership. I'm sure they will get better game by game though.

 

[fatletiss]

People are so funny. When we signed Martina there were so many that were up in arms and at best the concession was that he could only possibly be there as cover in extreme emergencies. Now people are calling for him to start ahead of the (reliable if limited) Yoshida on the flanks, and some asking for him to start ahead of Cedic!

I'm as guilty as anyone of the occasional dabble with being fickle, but c'mon guys, let's allow things to develop here!

Exactly. I find it incredible.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Having watched their goal back, it came from confusion between Romeu and Wanyama. They both got sucked in to pressure the ball at the same time. You can see Vic look round and expect someone else to be covering that central area, and then see's no one there but Sparv. One of the issues of having a brand new CM partnership. I'm sure they will get better game by game though.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Osvaldorama]

I know you're directing your comments at others, but I'm not moaning about it at all. He made a decision, which I accept and understand. I just don't agree with it! That is kind of the point of a football forum though... You discuss football!

 

[fatletiss]

Having watched their goal back, it came from confusion between Romeu and Wanyama. They both got sucked in to pressure the ball at the same time. You can see Vic look round and expect someone else to be covering that central area, and then see's no one there but Sparv. One of the issues of having a brand new CM partnership. I'm sure they will get better game by game though.

Not too mention Jose's really **** header. Forgive my facetiousness here, but perhaps that was because Yoshida was at RB

 

[Jos Say No]

Having watched their goal back, it came from confusion between Romeu and Wanyama. They both got sucked in to pressure the ball at the same time. You can see Vic look round and expect someone else to be covering that central area, and then see's no one there but Sparv. One of the issues of having a brand new CM partnership. I'm sure they will get better game by game though.

Thanks, all I seem to remember at the time was thinking that there were too many players on their winger down our right hand side and a gaping hole in the middle for Sparv!

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I know you're directing your comments at others, but I'm not moaning about it at all. He made a decision, which I accept and understand. I just don't agree with it! That is kind of the point of a football forum though... You discuss football!

100% agree. It's good to be able to have a discussion without people taking it all terribly personally!

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Can we have a word about Sparv - I hadn't realised he was absolutely massive!