The Coral Eclipse Legends

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King Shergar said:
Dancing Brave was far from unbeatable, he lost twice as a 3yo ...
I think a horse should have to earn a lofty rating, like the likes of Shergar, Brigadier Gerard and dare I say it Harbinger did
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Beaten in the Derby by the midget on his back and beaten in the Breeders’ Cup Turf when hit in the face by a divot kicked up by one of the horses in front.

I knew you would manage to work Shergar into this somehow. He went for a penalty kick at The Curragh instead of the Eclipse, despite being a course and distance winner.
 
QuarterMoonII said:
Beaten in the Derby by the midget on his back and beaten in the Breeders’ Cup Turf when hit in the face by a divot kicked up by one of the horses in front.

I knew you would manage to work Shergar into this somehow. He went for a penalty kick at The Curragh instead of the Eclipse, despite being a course and distance winner.
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The same Eclipse won by Master Willie who Shergar delt with in the KG easily<whistle>

And also a divot kicked up, I've never heard of a race horse being slowed down by a lump of grass hitting him in the face :biggrin:
 
King Shergar said:
Dancing Brave was far from unbeatable, he lost twice as a 3yo and was clinging on in the KG with Shardari coming back at him at the line, to barely win half a length. and Shardari was nothing special, he lost more races than he won. His Arc win was a nice victory, but he benifited from them going to hard up front, and I'm far from convinced the likes of Berin, Tryptich and Sharastani where the vintage crop they where billed as.

Dancing Brave's career has a lot of similarities with Sea The Stars, neither of them won any of their races that impressively , so all there rivals ratings where upped just to justify giving the pair high Timeform ratings. Fame And Glory and Rip Van Winkle got similar treatment to the likes of Bering, Tryptich and Sharastani by Timeform just to justify lofty ratings for Sea The Stars and Dancing Brave.

I think a horse should have to earn a lofty rating, like the likes of Shergar, Brigadier Gerard and dare I say it Harbinger did :biggrin:
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The 2000 guineas, Eclipse and Arc weren't impressive victories ? Come off it lol!
 
It is well know DB was not right in America lost weight and was probably over the top anyways, even Theatrical even beat him and that horse whilst decent was not on his level.
Using the level of Shergars excuses here you could say Cut Above improved past Shergar as the season went on hence the Leger result. Shergar got beat twice but nobody claims he was not a great horse.
DB and STS were better than Shergar though IMO.
 
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mallafets said:
It is well know DB was not right in America lost weight and was probably over the top anyways, even Theatrical even beat him and that horse whilst decent was not on his level.
Using the level of Shergars excuses here you could say Cut Above improved past Shergar as the season went on hence the Leger result. Shergar got beat twice but nobody claims he was not a great horse.
DB and STS were better than Shergar though IMO.
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Don't forget the monster that was Glint of Gold! Won 6 egg and spoon races in Italy and France . On a side note... Shergar was clearly a great horse, I'm certainly not stupid enough or blind enough to deny him his place on the pantheon of the greats.
 
Dancingbraveforever said:
Shergar was clearly a great horse, I'm certainly not stupid enough or blind enough to deny him his place on the pantheon of the greats.
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We know what happened to Shergar. He jumped the fence out of his paddock at the stud one day and the Aga Khan realised that there was money to be made winning the Champion Hurdle. So he put him in training with Paddy Mullins but none of the bookmakers would take bets in Francs from a mysterious punter based near Gouvieux and he ended up in the Newbridge kebab shop.
 
mallafets said:
It is well know DB was not right in America lost weight and was probably over the top anyways, even Theatrical even beat him and that horse whilst decent was not on his level.
Using the level of Shergars excuses here you could say Cut Above improved past Shergar as the season went on hence the Leger result. Shergar got beat twice but nobody claims he was not a great horse.
DB and STS were better than Shergar though IMO.
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Seriously get a grip! Shergar only lost as a 2yo and over an extreme distance, a race that is farmed by national hunt sires. However over a mile and a half he'd of left the likes of Dancing Brave and Sea The Stars for dead, as neither of those 2 horses won with any significant authority to set themselves as a class apart from the rest as Shergar did. The likes of Youmzain and Shardari wouldn't have seen which way Shergar went. This is why there is a whole days racing named in Shergars honour at the premier track in England.

Dancingbraveforever said:
Don't forget the monster that was Glint of Gold! Won 6 egg and spoon races in Italy and France . On a side note... Shergar was clearly a great horse, I'm certainly not stupid enough or blind enough to deny him his place on the pantheon of the greats.
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So we are dismissing French races, yet you claim DB is such a great for winning a race in France. Everyone knows the standards in France is just as strong as over here. Glint Of Gold was a far better horse than the likes of Shardari and Triptych. I suggest you actually ask Sir Micheal Stoute who trained Shardari about the difference in terms ability between him and Shergar, and he would laugh his nuts off if you think that horse could have got anywhere near Shergar. Yet he gave Dancing Brave a run for his money, as did Sharastani who Walter Swinburne and Sir Micheal Stoute will tell you wouldn't have got within 10 lentghs of Shergar.

Glint Of Gold won 10 of his 17 races, winning 6 G1s in the process, finishing 2nd 6 times and only once finishing 3rd. Other than the Derby against Shergar, he was never beaten more than 3 lentghs in 17 starts, but Shergar beat him 10 eased up. And saying eased up is the biggest understatement going as he could have won 15 had he been full out to the line.

QuarterMoonII said:
We know what happened to Shergar. He jumped the fence out of his paddock at the stud one day and the Aga Khan realised that there was money to be made winning the Champion Hurdle. So he put him in training with Paddy Mullins but none of the bookmakers would take bets in Francs from a mysterious punter based near Gouvieux and he ended up in the Newbridge kebab shop.
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And as for you that post says all. You think it's funny to make a joke about a great horse who was gunned to death by a gang of terrorists. You ****ing imbecile!

If Ron or Oddy would tell me where your posting from, il turn up and put you through more pain than that poor horse who did **** all wrong to you:biggrin:
 
King Shergar said:

Seriously get a grip! Shergar only lost as a 2yo and over an extreme distance, a race that is farmed by national hunt sires. However over a mile and a half he'd of left the likes of Dancing Brave and Sea The Stars for dead, as neither of those 2 horses won with any significant authority to set themselves as a class apart from the rest as Shergar did. The likes of Youmzain and Shardari wouldn't have seen which way Shergar went. This is why there is a whole days racing named in Shergars honour at the premier track in England.



So we are dismissing French races, yet you claim DB is such a great for winning a race in France. Everyone knows the standards in France is just as strong as over here. Glint Of Gold was a far better horse than the likes of Shardari and Triptych. I suggest you actually ask Sir Micheal Stoute who trained Shardari about the difference in terms ability between him and Shergar, and he would laugh his nuts off if you think that horse could have got anywhere near Shergar. Yet he gave Dancing Brave a run for his money, as did Sharastani who Walter Swinburne and Sir Micheal Stoute will tell you wouldn't have got within 10 lentghs of Shergar.

Glint Of Gold won 10 of his 17 races, winning 6 G1s in the process, finishing 2nd 6 times and only once finishing 3rd. Other than the Derby against Shergar, he was never was beaten more than 3 lentghs in 17 starts, but Shergar beat him 10 eased up. And saying eased up is the biggest understatement going as he could have won 15 had he been full out to the line.



And as for you that post says all. You think it's funny to make a joke about a great horse who was gunned to death by a gang of terrorists. You ****ing imbecile!

If Ron or Oddy would tell me where your posting from, il turn up and put you through more pain than that poor horse who did **** all wrong to you:biggrin:
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The mask slips....again.

Thoroughly nasty post Shergy.
 
Dexter said:
The mask slips....again.

Thoroughly nasty post Shergy.
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Get a grip Dexter. A horse being murdered by terrorists is not something I find amusing. And I think anyone who would make a joke of that just to score a few points is sick in the head:biggrin:
 
Dexter said:
El hombre obsesivo.
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All that sun in Spain must be limiting your brain power. But hey crack on with your pointless argument, as you have about as little influence on this forum as anyone, so I really couldn't give a toss :biggrin:
 
I think we'll put this to bed Shergy.

I don't think anything is to be gained for the forum by puerile semantics tendered by either of us.
 
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The St Leger isn't an "extreme" distance and Shergar lost because he wasn't bred to stay that distance. His sire barely got a mile and a quarter and he was from a fast female line propped up with stayer Val de Loir. I remember there were some people who doubted he would stay 12 furlongs
 
Watching Shergar in action over 1m4f i thought he would stay 1m6f but he either did not or just under performed in the Leger. Derby, Irish Derby, KG and onto the Leger is a big ask.
Is it "extreme" if you just do not get the trip? a mile was extreme to Dayjur you could say.
 
As I've always maintained, I'm far from convinced that Shergars defeat in the St Leger was purely down to not staying, I think it was a combination of the trip and the tough schedule he'd had. Over a mile and a half he galloped all over Cut Above in the Irish Derby, and won like a horse who was 20+ pounds superior to his rival. As the commentator said he was only in an exercise canter. You won't see a G1 won with more ease. So whilst I accept the extra 2 and a half furlongs may have brought the pair closer together, would the extra distance really see Shergar being ridden along and struggling to keep up with 2 furlongs to go? This was to a rival he had galloped all over only a couple of months before. I think the busy schedule had taken its toll on Shergar that year, and that's why he didn't run in the Arc. Very similar to Nashwan who had a similar busy schedule to Shergar, and was well beaten at 1/6 in an Arc trial race:biggrin:
 
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