Transfer Rumours The 2015 Summer Transfer Window Thread

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Toela65 said:
There just isn't any evidence from recent seasons that makes this a realistic ambition. Saints had as good a season as they could have. Massively over-achieved (like LFC did in 13/14) and that wasn't good enough for 6th.
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It's a perfectly reasonable ambition.

It would be foolish to expect a top four finish. It would be equally foolish to not even aspire to a top four finish. There is a difference between ambition and expectation. Which is a line that Cortese may not have understood, but which the current triumverate of Krueger/Koeman/Reed seem to have a good handle on.

Getting into the top four will be really, really hard. Even maintaining a status as a top ten club is pretty freaking difficult. But it can be done. You have to be willing to accept the challenge. If you decide you are okay just being a mid-table team and you can just hang out there... that's the moment you put yourself in serious danger of being relegated. I think that is pretty much what happened with Newcastle.
 
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Le Tissier's Laces said:
I don't think it's an ill-thought out decision by their club as it hasn't happened, and despite the fun, it probably never will.
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That is why I said 'would be'. It pains me to point this out but come on now!

The facts say Liverpool played to par last season and we overachieved. The data and the salary tables back this. Evidence suggests we will eventually regress but it's exciting to think that we may be onto something, that there might be some 'cheat mode' we've unlocked through good scouting and clever player development.
 
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Toela65 said:
But Saints aren't a Top 6 club and probably never will be unless Spurs and Liverpool go bust or something. If Saints couldn't do it this season when both Spurs and Liverpool had one of their poorest seasons they haven't got a chance when each club sorts itself out.

Saints just don't earn anywhere near the money needed to finish above Spurs and Liverpool and never will do and that's why even if Spurs/LFC have an absolutely abysmal season. they'll still both finish above Saints. Saints have hit their glass ceiling I'm afraid unless they get in a sugar daddy now that FFP has been booted out.

I can't see any realistic way with the way things currently stand that an argument can be made for Saints to finish above the bigger clubs. There just isn't any evidence from recent seasons that makes this a realistic ambition. Saints had as good a season as they could have. Massively over-achieved (like LFC did in 13/14) and that wasn't good enough for 6th.
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I completely disagree with the highlighted points.

I don't actually think we'll go better next season, but we could, signings dependent. The sugar daddy bit? What, like the multi-billionaire that owns us you mean? We're building a sustainable model here, which with added player investment and good management means absolutely we can improve. Liverpool and Spurs aren't necessarily going to improve next season. What makes you think they are and we're not?
 
A few years ago you could have argued that Saints don't have the fan base to consistently challenge the top 4, or even the top 6. But with gate receipts being a tiny fraction of TV money now, maybe that doesn't have the significance it used to have. I hate the term "brand" applied to football clubs, but maybe with a mix of clever marketing and success on the pitch, we can flog the Saints profile around the world and go from being Ford to Jaguar. Cautionary tale though, Ford once owned Jaguar, and made horrible cars.
 
I was doing some research on statistics for work this morning, and discovered this in the CIA World Fact Book:

UK Major Urban Areas

LONDON (capital) 10.189 million; Manchester 2.624 million; Birmingham 2.497 million; Glasgow 1.219 million; Southampton/Portsmouth 876,000; Liverpool 869,000 (2014)

In other words, we're the only (serious) football club in the 4th largest urban area in England. Quite the potential fan base...
 
Honestly, Toela65's post is exactly the type of "inalienable right" perception that is so utterly frustrating (and motivating). It's precisely the attitude that the likes of Cortese/Liebherr/Koeman/Reed have tried to and are trying to circumnavigate.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
I actually think we under-achieved this season. We could, and should, have finished in the top 6 or with a bit of extra luck in the top 4. If you think of all the times that Graziano hit the woodwork, if half of those had gone in it could have meant the extra 10 points necessary to catch Man U and Arsenal. If Morgan, or Toby, or Fraser, or all three of them, hadn't got injured the same might have happened.

And just look at the thread DTLW posted about the increase in value of the club. We are now the 9th richest football club in England, and rising all the time. Status quo? I fart in its general direction!
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Well said Chilco. I couldn't agree with you more. Thankfully we support a club that doesn't impose limits on its ambition other than operating sustainably. It never says that it will never win the Premiership. It never says that it will never qualify for the Champions league. In fact, they are two stated aims, and why not. As a supporter I love the club striving to be better, and as I've said before, I think we could have done slightly better this season. But this club is just getting into its stride. There's loads of winning to do.

And the status quo..? I also fart in that direction.
 
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Le Tissier's Laces said:
Honestly, Toela65's post is exactly the type of "inalienable right" perception that is so utterly frustrating (and motivating). It's precisely the attitude that the likes of Cortese/Liebherr/Koeman/Reed have tried to and are trying to circumnavigate.
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Don't worry LTL. The traditional hierarchy of clubs is coming to an end because of that inalienable right attitude. Tradition counts for less and less and it will count for nothing eventually. It's the smarter clubs who make best use of the new money and new visions, methods and techniques that will come out on top. And just because a dyed-in-the-wool traditional football fan can't see it doesn't mean it can't happen.
 
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It's absolutely true that the likes of Liverpool and Spurs will likely always have more money. However, it's also inarguable that the gap in purchasing power is shrinking...mid-tier clubs have the ability to purchase players at prices that would have been unthinkable not long ago. The big clubs still have and will retain many advantages, but in an era where the likes of Southampton, Everton, etc can compete in the marketplace with all but the elite on the continent, it's best to tread a bit carefully.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Don't worry LTL. The traditional hierarchy of clubs is coming to an end because of that inalienable right attitude. Tradition counts for less and less and it will count for nothing eventually. It's the smarter clubs who make best use of the new money and new visions, methods and techniques that will come out on top. And just because a dyed-in-the-wool traditional football fan can't see it doesn't mean it can't happen.
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Agreed 100% sir.
 
I suspect the big clubs are not as incompetent as we'd like to think. They don't need to be clever enough to come up with new ideas themselves, only to be able to see the ideas once they've been presented.

They will poach our philosophies, our methods, and our best staff just like they do our players.

Everyone thinks Beane and Moneyball revolutionized baseball. But the A's never won the World Series. It's still primarily the big market teams that dominate baseball, same as always. The big teams have changed only to the extent that ownership has changed hands. The Dodgers aren't a particularly smart team, they just buy everyone. And they now look at OBP and they hire Sabremetric nerds and all that, just like the A's. Only with a couple million extra dollars to do it with.
 
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Toela's post is typical of a 'top 6' team.

Chelsea, Arsenal both have sound long term plans and the backup plans. Manchester City have the talent and finance to immediately rectify problems and maintain top 4. Mancheter Utd have just as much finance plus the draw of playing for the World's bigget club to attract players.

Then we get to Liverpool and Spurs. Liverpool's brand value is 3x ours and Spurs is 2x (according to the report today in the Mail :) ) They should be beating us every year but for 2 problems.

Liverpool's problem is they have a manager who is not good enough. He had 1 good season when a Benitez signing nearly won the league on his own but Brenda is clueless and will not get you where your club should be.

Tottingham's problem is that they have a terrible chairman who thinks he is in charge of Man City or Chelsea expecting far too much of each manager and then chucking them out.

Southampton cannot compete financially (yet. We're the 18th biggest club in the world now ya know. lol. I know how Pool fans love their stats and facts.) but with a much more sound club structure, board and chairman than Spurs allied with a better manager than Liverpool then we may be able to catch Liverpool. 2 points is less than a win. If we had drawn 1 of our games with you last season we would have finished level!!! EDIT ahead by 1 point.

If it weren't for Pochettino getting lucky and being forced to put Kane into his 'favourite 15' of a first team then they would have finished mid table!!!

Against us is we might lose 2 or 3 or 4 key players in the summer. Clyne, Shneiderlin etc. Going for us is that they will being in super bucks and we will be buying more quality that our scouting network (remember what scouts are?) have bee lining up as suitable for us.

Another boost for us is the Europa League which can help our plans of world domination giving us even more exposure and unlike other clubs like Hull, Swansea, Wigan etc we have the funds and ambition to boost our squad to cope with the extra competition. We might finish next season higher than being 'just' the 18th biggest club in world football :)
 
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