Did Poyet Ruin Some of our Players?

[Meniscus]

I ask this question with the utmost of sincerity to Gustavo and not out of any bitterness/spite for the poor results he achieved - (ok, maybe a little bit of bitterness, but not much).

This Fletcher article about how much he loved O'Neill and now Advocaat got me thinking more and more about this: http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport...-want-to-cross-caring-dick-advocaat-1-7297279

The tell tale signals are in Fletcher's comments about how O'Neill and Advocaat were 'caring', provided one on one time with him (and the others) and filled him/them with confidence. Advocaat appears to have the extra ability of coming across as someone who you DO NOT want to screw with. Reading between the lines, it implies that Poyet was more of an authoritarian who didn't believe in the 'hand around the shoulder' (i.e. a 'Diet Di Canio').

Whether or not there is really something to this, who knows? (and as nice as O'Neill might have been, his results were hardly any better).

If there is something in this, does it mean that Advocaat can get a lot better out of the likes of Fletcher, Alvarez (if we have to keep him), Gomez, Johnson (assuming.... you know), Giaccherini and Wickham? (among others).

Personally, I would ditch Fletcher and his hair hat, pray that Alvarez's contract isn't ours, keep Gomez as a bench player and no more, say a very sad farewell to Giaccherini (but only if someone pays 5 million or more - otherwise definitely hang on) and read the riot act to Wickham for one more season to see if he really has it or not.

 

[Yorkie]

Not really a reply to your main point but we shouldn't sell Gach. He will show his brilliance under Dick with a decent run. Fletcher however - I just can't see him giving us much more.

 

[Nostalgic]

Non-performing strikers are always a concern but GP's system of playing 2 up with one wide was not working but he could not see it. Even on the evidence of his last few games when DA took over I feel as if CW has next to nothing to offer. At least Fletcher and JD move into the right areas and given the right service can score. CW is rapidly becoming a lost cause.

 

[DAPARKERSAFC]

I don't think he ruined anyone.

Remember he brought Cattermole in from the cold. Actually got Larsson to understand the center midfield role instead of being a waste of a shirt.

He knew the limitations of the squad and knew if we went too attacking we'd get lynched more often than not. All those, draws did play a part in keeping us up.

 

[grandpops]

I don't think he ruined anyone.

Remember he brought Cattermole in from the cold. Actually got Larsson to understand the center midfield role instead of being a waste of a shirt.

He knew the limitations of the squad and knew if we went too attacking we'd get lynched more often than not. All those, draws did play a part in keeping us up.

Agree with this but with the reservation that he played to not get beat. All well and good but we had nothing at the sharp end to convert to wins and he did little or nothing to rectify that.

 

[Brian Storm]

I think all our but one of our strikers are ****e. I'd be happy if I never saw DG, CW or SF ever again. Different managers have different ways of dealing with players, but if they're ****e then it doesn't really matter. They're ****e. I don't care whether they prefer an arm round the shoulder

 

[Disco down under]

Temporarily yes. He's a waste of space manager who made average/bad players worse. Wouldn't trust him to overlook watering my garden nevermind the running of a premier league club.

 

[Commachio]

could ask another question..

did some of the players **** PDC right over?

 

[concrete tony]

There is only so much polishing of a turd you can do. In the end it's still a turd and that's my thoughts on a lot of our players. No wonder Dick wants to bring in 5-6 quality players. I would suggest Dletchers top flight record speaks for itself. He isn't good enough. The one thing I will say about our players is they do manage to get up a head of steam under a new manager for a month or two. Happened under mon, Gus and dick.

 

[concrete tony]

In the words of the mother of dragons. He doesn't need to stop the wheel he needs to break the wheel!!

 

[marcusblackcat]

Non-performing strikers are always a concern but GP's system of playing 2 up with one wide was not working but he could not see it. Even on the evidence of his last few games when DA took over I feel as if CW has next to nothing to offer. At least Fletcher and JD move into the right areas and given the right service can score. CW is rapidly becoming a lost cause.

Hes 22 man! He's playing out of position as a winger and defensive player! Advocaat played him just in front of Cattermole at Arsenal so how can he be judged a lost cause? Played in his favoured position he s Oreo goals. For some reason he's hardly been played there over the most recent season. If you played a top striker as a dm or winger you expect half if not less goals. Wickham got 5 playing on the wing and in midfield for majority of last season. What would you expect as a return? Since we got Defoe he has scored 3. Only 1 more than CW who has been playing a much less attacking role than him. He's had some poor games but so has Defoe among others.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

Non-performing strikers are always a concern but GP's system of playing 2 up with one wide was not working but he could not see it. Even on the evidence of his last few games when DA took over I feel as if CW has next to nothing to offer. At least Fletcher and JD move into the right areas and given the right service can score. CW is rapidly becoming a lost cause.

Do you not know any ****er's name

 

[marcusblackcat]

@Nostalgic GA doesn't like you using initials!!

 

[Sidthemackem]

Some of them are past ruining, but he didn't seem to help. I think that Advocaat won't take any ****, so the players will be putting out 100% and then we'll see how good/bad/utterly ****e they are...

 

[The Relic]

Connor on the left isn't at his best. Altidore in the middle isn't remotely like the player he is for USA. So, for a complete half season, Poyet continues to play Wickham on the left and Altidore in the middle ! Can anybody please just quietly and methodically explain that to me? I never will understand it otherwise.

 

[Brian Storm]

Hes 22 man! He's playing out of position as a winger and defensive player! Advocaat played him just in front of Cattermole at Arsenal so how can he be judged a lost cause? Played in his favoured position he s Oreo goals. For some reason he's hardly been played there over the most recent season. If you played a top striker as a dm or winger you expect half if not less goals. Wickham got 5 playing on the wing and in midfield for majority of last season. What would you expect as a return? Since we got Defoe he has scored 3. Only 1 more than CW who has been playing a much less attacking role than him. He's had some poor games but so has Defoe among others.

Ironically his defensive work has been the best part of his game this season. He has a touch like an elephant, his decision making is truly appalling, as is his movement, he can't shoot, he's weak on the ball, he's weak off the ball and at over 6 foot he can't head a ball to save his life. He's ****ing ****e, don't care where on the pitch he is his shortcomings are his shortcomings. We need a striker with a bit of footballing intelligence. He is not it imo. Notice I didn't mention goals? He lacks that much quality you don't even need to mention his finishing which fair play, we still don't know much about, but the modern day striker is about holding up the ball and bringing team mates into the game. He does not do this well, so unless he's going to bring in 15 goals a season (which is doubtful as those strikers are rare) I don't see any point in the lad.

The fact that he isn't much better than when we signed him 4 years ago is ****ing scary. All he's done in the time is acquire tattoos. Just another playboy wannabe as far as i'm concerned. Him and Fletch can **** off, over paid jobsworths.

Rant over.

 

[Disco down under]

Wickham is a ****e player and I can't see him improving a great deal in the future. I just don't see any attribute in him that suggests he's better than league 1.

The fact that the club will most likely have flushed around £25-30m on him by the time he sees out his latest contract would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing.

 

[marcusblackcat]

I must be in a massive minority. I rate Wickham. I have seen flashes of a very good player. His touch, for the last 4 games, whilst it was poor it was far better than Defoe! His touch was awful yet he avoids criticism from most. Bag of cement was used in a turn of phrase. I accept Wickham has been poor but I also see a Defoe that was no better. Wickham is very young and Defoe should be using his experience to teach but he is looking no better than Wickham IMO.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

12 months ago it'd have been hard to believe that you lot would be writing this stuff about Wickham.

I barney'd with Stu about this and it led to a bit of a falling out, he still assures me that defenders won't suss him out though.

Those of you who do rate him, you in particular @marcusblackcat fair play for having faith in your player mate, but I'd think it was more hope than anything.

 

[clockstander]

Its all about opinions, fwiw here's mine, both DEFO and WICKS add something to the team, niether set the world alight but both contribute to the overall team play. We are expecting them to improve but I doubt if they will, for different reasons. It is an area that needs to be strengthened yes, but it is not a priority imo.