Manager Watch

[Tel (they/them)]

In fairness mate thats not fair, not one of them gave anything during that game

Cattermole gives 100% and id say in the majority of matches he plays our midfield actually has some bite and cant just be wandered through

He hurrys and harasses players and as a defensive midfielder is superb

Again, mate that's your opinion but from an outside point of view, I refer you to the Scott Parker comment. He just gets far too much credit for effort alone.

The squad did play **** but using collective responsibility is not an excuse, if one gives up they all give up? Doesn't that just highlight my point?

We've gone way off my point now anyhow, my point was any top manager looking in is going to see what has happened to those before him and wonder what the issue is. It's turned into a thread about LC's ability now, a point I really don't want to argue with you lot, since you lot love him and I think, well, something else.

 

[Brian Storm]

That's not true though. Southampton away he gave nothing.

Cattermole's treatment by SAFC fans reminds me exactly of how West Ham fans used to cream over Scott Parker, in the end, the kid ran round in circles with the ball and wasn't satisfied until he left the pitch with mud on his shirt.

He might try hard, even 90% of the time he might give his all but somebody like Nzonzi or McCarthy could give 60% effort and be more effective on the pitch.

Effort isn't talent, never will be.

The reason I bring him up is his past, his behaviour off the pitch isn't squeaky clean.

Now you're splitting hairs mate. OK one game he didn't. So he's gone from vermin to not giving 100% against Southampton away

 

[Brian Storm]

To a point I agree mate, Poyet did play horrendously defensive tactics, however the same core of players has been there since the Bruce era... and look how many managers we have went through
Although Managers have to take the blame, the players are not completely innocent in all of it

But my point is how do you identify them when they're all going out and playing to instruction to the best of their capability. This thread has turned into a bunch of people stumbling around in the dark and pointing fingers. If the players are not completely innocent, lets have names with evidence to back it up.

 

[Brian Storm]

This is my thinking exactly.

I honestly don't believe we're a million miles away from mid table security (mediocrity for some) with the likes of West Ham etc.

If we can appoint the right man - and have 3 or 4 quality signings, (as well as some squad fillers), and play the football our players are capable of playing, I think we'll be fine next season.

We need back line investment(quality)Pace(quality) A creative player in the middle of the park(Quality) and a CF(quality) I count six players of Quality needed to make us a mid table side. That's two summer windows with investment. I don't think we're a million miles. Get the appointment right and a year and three months this team could look very very different imo.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Now you're splitting hairs mate. OK one game he didn't. So he's gone from vermin to not giving 100% against Southampton away

What's the obsession with him giving 100% mate? So what if he gives 100% on the pitch? His 100% could be the equivalent of N'zonzi giving 40% effort.

Cattermole is nowhere near that level, we're not talking Matic, I'm talking about Stoke players.

I've already explained my reason for thinking why he could be a bad egg anyhow and it had nowt to do with his effort.

I'm not gonna reel off a bunch of games where he's not been at 100% it's irrelevant to the argument, you seem to think he's squeaky clean so take him out of my ASSUMPTION that he's a bad egg and no harm done.

 

[Jack TheLad]

We need back line investment(quality)Pace(quality) A creative player in the middle of the park(Quality) and a CF(quality) I count six players of Quality needed to make us a mid table side. That's two summer windows with investment. I don't think we're a million miles. Get the appointment right and a year and three months this team could look very very different imo.

It's the spine of the team that needs the quality really isn't it.

Back on topic. I've got a feeling they've got an ace up their sleeve. We didn't see Dick coming (pun intended) so who knows. After the past few seasons of rollercoaster rides I think we need to take our time with this one, and get it right.

 

[Brian Storm]

What's the obsession with him giving 100% mate? So what if he gives 100% on the pitch? His 100% could be the equivalent of N'zonzi giving 40% effort.

Cattermole is nowhere near that level, we're not talking Matic, I'm talking about Stoke players.

I've already explained my reason for thinking why he could be a bad egg anyhow and it had nowt to do with his effort.

I'm not gonna reel off a bunch of games where he's not been at 100% it's irrelevant to the argument, you seem to think he's squeaky clean so take him out of my ASSUMPTION that he's a bad egg and no harm done.

Obsession? It's in response to you calling him vermin. You've gone from talking about vermin to talking about ability and then you're talking to me about relevence to the argument I've never mentioned his ability that's you going on about that. What the **** are you on today fella?

How is he vermin then? You say you've already explained your reason for thinking he's vermin but where? From where I'm sitting you just blindly pointing the finger. Included him in a list without reason. Do you class someone of limited ability as vermin? If so you've got your definitions ****ed up. I've done a better job of explaining he's vermin than you just by saying he's a typical teeside chav. I think you're a good lad tel but I think you're talking **** here. No problem with anyone saying he's limited but call someone vermin for not being great is just strange. How are you at building matchstick models? If you're anything less than good does that make you vermin? Sorry fella, but I haven't ****ing clue what your reasoning is all about.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Obsession? It's in response to you calling him vermin. You've gone from talking about vermin to talking about ability and then you're talking to me about relevence to the argument I've never mentioned his ability that's you going on about that. What the **** are you on today fella?

How is he vermin then? You say you've already explained your reason for thinking he's vermin but where? From where I'm sitting you just blindly pointing the finger. Included him in a list without reason. Do you class someone of limited ability as vermin? If so you've got your definitions ****ed up. I've done a better job of explaining he's vermin than you just by saying he's a typical teeside chav. I think you're a good lad tel but I think you're talking **** here. No problem with anyone saying he's limited but call someone vermin for not being great is just strange. How are you at building matchstick models? If you're anything less than good does that make you vermin? Sorry fella, but I haven't ****ing clue what your reasoning is all about.

I brought up a valid argument that many on here have discussed over the past couple of years, that there's some 'bad eggs' amongst your squad. The drinking culture etc is something frequently brought up on this very forum. I made an assumption on who I thought the players could be, I'm not Mystic ****ing Meg so I can't (nor can anybody else on here) say with any certainty, so I used what information has been disseminated through the public domain, such as Fletcher acting a **** with his Lambo, O'Shea being a well known piss head, Johnson being a boozer and a bit of a **** and Cattermole, keying cars on nights out, there's the basis for my assumption.

Then you said anybody who gives 100% I'm not going to label a vermin. A word you seem to have latched on to but trust me, it was as throwaway as any of my previous insults I've ever used to label professional footballers. You took exception with the fact that I didn't agree that he doesn't always give 100%. That part of the discussion was irrelevant because my reasoning had nothing to do with ability or commitment.

Whether I rate the bloke as a baller or not is irrelevant, there's plenty of good players who are bad influences on a dressing room and my assumption was that he falls into this category, if it turns out that he doesn't, then my assumption was wrong and I'll lose no sleep over that.

If you wanna get patronising mate, I'm more than happy to start digging into you but I'll ****ing leave it because I've more respect for the board than that, I'll do something else and leave before you and I fall out over something ridiculously trivial.

 

[Brian Storm]

I brought up a valid argument that many on here have discussed over the past couple of years, that there's some 'bad eggs' amongst your squad. The drinking culture etc is something frequently brought up on this very forum. I made an assumption on who I thought the players could be, I'm not Mystic ****ing Meg so I can't (nor can anybody else on here) say with any certainty, so I used what information has been disseminated through the public domain, such as Fletcher acting a **** with his Lambo, O'Shea being a well known piss head, Johnson being a boozer and a bit of a **** and Cattermole, keying cars on nights out, there's the basis for my assumption.

Then you said anybody who gives 100% I'm not going to label a vermin. A word you seem to have latched on to but trust me, it was as throwaway as any of my previous insults I've ever used to label professional footballers. You took exception with the fact that I didn't agree that he doesn't always give 100%. That part of the discussion was irrelevant because my reasoning had nothing to do with ability or commitment.

Whether I rate the bloke as a baller or not is irrelevant, there's plenty of good players who are bad influences on a dressing room and my assumption was that he falls into this category, if it turns out that he doesn't, then my assumption was wrong and I'll lose no sleep over that.

If you wanna get patronising mate, I'm more than happy to start digging into you but I'll ****ing leave it because I've more respect for the board than that, I'll do something else and leave before you and I fall out over something ridiculously trivial.

You know, I've just gone through this thread about ten times feeling a dick like I'd missed something. But I hadn't. You've never even mentioned drinking culture to me until this post . You're were talking about vermin in the squad I assumed it was about disrupting the dressing room, example being set, on pitch effort. That's why I was mentioning on pitch commitment. Then you shift to attacking his ability. Is it any wonder I was confused with your definition? Not my fault if you can't be arsed to ****ing explain yourself clearly. I've got better things to do then second guess an unclear, non Sunderland fan as he cryptically calls out our ****ing players vermin.

And for the record, I've never said he was squeaky clean at any point, don't put words in my mouth.

You're right, you're not Mystic Meg, You're Cryptic Tel

 

[jdsafc]

I believe this thread was about our new manager........

I'm watching the odds on Phillip Cocu coming in today. Betfair now have him as 5/2 favourite. Where has that come from???

With the PSV thing I'm wondering if Dick has recommended him to us.

 

[Brian Storm]

I believe this thread was about our new manager........

I'm watching the odds on Phillip Cocu coming in today. Betfair now have him as 5/2 favourite. Where has that come from???

With the PSV thing I'm wondering if Dick has recommended him to us.

SMB forum mate. They all threw money on off the back of a friend of a friend rumor which turned out to be bullshit. But it manipulated the market and shortened it odds. It's a no go

 

[jdsafc]

SMB forum mate. They all threw money on off the back of a friend of a friend rumor which turned out to be bullshit. But it manipulated the market and shortened it odds. It's a no go

Ah bugger. Liked the sound of that one

Back to the "Laudrop In" for me then

 

[Brian Storm]

Ah bugger. Liked the sound of that one

Back to the "Laudrop In" for me then

All I know about is he has a similar style to Gus. If he came in I'd expect more tippy tappy **** with no penetration, just like Swansea were under him and they had a better squad. No from me. We'd need to sign a brand new squad of 23 to play that style. They're just not good enough. Out of the front runners maybe Sean Dyche or McClaren but they're hardly inspired.

 

[jdsafc]

All I know about is he has a similar style to Gus. If he came in I'd expect more tippy tappy **** with no penetration, just like Swansea were under him and they had a better squad. No from me. We'd need to sign a brand new squad of 23 to play that style. They're just not good enough. Out of the front runners maybe Sean Dyche or McClaren but they're hardly inspired.

If Short is serious about getting us to be a top 12 side (as Advocaat said) then he needs to be looking a it higher than those 2 IMO

Betting link attached

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/sunderland/next-permanent-manager

 

[Blunham Mackem]

Again, mate that's your opinion but from an outside point of view, I refer you to the Scott Parker comment. He just gets far too much credit for effort alone.

The squad did play **** but using collective responsibility is not an excuse, if one gives up they all give up? Doesn't that just highlight my point?

We've gone way off my point now anyhow, my point was any top manager looking in is going to see what has happened to those before him and wonder what the issue is. It's turned into a thread about LC's ability now, a point I really don't want to argue with you lot, since you lot love him and I think, well, something else.

TJ, I think it a little unfair to regard Catts as more effort than talent. To date, he's played and captained for the national team at every level bar the final full squad. So that's several national coaches/managers at all levels of his career who've seen something in the lad to warrant national recognition at each age / stage of his career.

That's not to deny his international career has stalled since the U21's due to his style of play and reputation at club level. I think his performances in recent years has suffered from bad coaching, bad personal career choices and off-pitch distractions.

But I believe there is still some talent inside. It's just a case of the best coach getting it out of him again.

 

[Brian Storm]

If Short is serious about getting us to be a top 12 side (as Advocaat said) then he needs to be looking a it higher than those 2 IMO

Betting link attached

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/sunderland/next-permanent-manager

Well I was just picking out of the touted candidates. Laudrop won't make us progress much niether, Swansea was set up for him and he struggled to get them scoring goals, our squad just isn't good enough to play his style. Disaster written all over him for me.

In my world(and a very small world it is) We should be testing the water with managers like Walter Mazzarri, Slaven Bilic, Marcelo Bielsa or Fatih Terim, Fantasist I maybe but if we start showing a bit of ambition it might attract a better quality of coach. Being linked with Big ****ing Sam ain't going to make anyone sit up and pay attention.

 

[jdsafc]

Well I was just picking out of the touted candidates. Laudrop won't make us progress much niether, Swansea was set up for him and he struggled to get them scoring goals, our squad just isn't good enough to play his style. Disaster written all over him for me.

In my world(and a very small world it is) We should be testing the water with managers like Walter Mazzarri, Slaven Bilic, Marcelo Bielsa or Fatih Terim, Fantasist I maybe but if we start showing a bit of ambition it might attract a better quality of coach. Being linked with Big ****ing Sam ain't going to make anyone sit up and pay attention.

Agree re Big Sam
I've wanted us to land Bilic for years - purely coz he's a bit mad and aggressive with the way he goes on. It would get the fans going

 

[Brian Storm]

Agree re Big Sam
I've wanted us to land Bilic for years - purely coz he's a bit mad and aggressive with the way he goes on. It would get the fans going

He's been linked with West Ham not surprisingly, Aparantly OLM have rejected an aproach from West Ham for Marcelo Bielsa too. They're a hit and miss club and look who they've been linked with compared to us. When it comes to Sunderland the Press have no imagination. I think Congerton with Dick's help could have something up his sleeve. Maybe were waiting for the Russian season to finish maybe for one of Congerton's old contacts maybe? Villas boas maybe

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Only we would have a Dick then a Cocu manage us.

 

[jdsafc]

He's been linked with West Ham not surprisingly, Aparantly OLM have rejected an aproach from West Ham for Marcelo Bielsa too. They're a hit and miss club and look who they've been linked with compared to us. When it comes to Sunderland the Press have no imagination. I think Congerton with Dick's help could have something up his sleeve. Maybe were waiting for the Russian season to finish maybe for one of Congerton's old contacts maybe? Villas boas maybe

Think I'd rather have big Sam than AVB. He's not destined for success in our league
I get the impression though (based on nothing other than my suspicious mind) that McLaren is sitting back waiting for us to miss all of our targets then offer it to him