Daily Racing Thread Sunday 3rd. May 2015

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Legatissimo looks like she will be hard to beat in the Oaks, and I'd say 5/1 is a very generous price.

All her best work was done at the end of the race, she was really powering past Lucida and away from the rest of the field impressively.

So the way she won the Guineas and her pedigree suggests the mile and a half will be well within her reach.

I'd assume Ryan Moore will still be allowed to ride, as he's retained by the owners rather than AOB specifically :biggrin:
 
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floridaspearl said:
My problem with it is frankel was bred to win a derby, and yet all the top studs are only interested in a mile/ mile and a quarter horses. Where does this leave the English classics. What happened to tradition.
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I think UK racing needs to move with the times. It may well be traditional but it doesn't make it the best thing for the sport.

So I'd make the St Leger a 10 furlong race, as no owner or trainer is interested in trying to own or train a triple crown winner in the UK, with the race a mile and 6 furlongs.

As far as Frankel is concerned he'd of won the Derby had he ran in the race, and a decent jockey who could settle him had been on board. It's a real shame that probably the most talented horse in history's career was wasted taken on the same old horses over a mile, over and over again :biggrin:
 
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Steveo77 said:
I think Legatissimo has Fame&Glory in her breeding. In my opinion he was one of the best horses not to win the Derby (just beaten by superstar Sea the Stars). I think she will get round Epsom ok
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Can't be sure, not seeing her in real life, but she looked a big girl, and quite tall. Lovely filly but may find Epsom a bit tricky. If she can win the Oaks she would be a live candidate for the Arc on a flat track. Personally, I don't think she will win the Oaks.
 
King Shergar said:
............As far as Frankel is concerned he'd of won the Derby had he ran in the race, and a decent jockey who could settle him had been on board. It's a real shame that probably the most talented horse in history's career was wasted taken on the same old horses over a mile, over and over again :biggrin:
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It's all about opinions, I know, but, I'm sorry, this is rubbish and pure conjecture. Can't we just be satisfied what Frankel achieved, and the fact that connections had the guts to keep him racing as a 4-y-o, and to take a real chance in racing him over 1-1/4 miles in top company? This quibbling over "why didn't they race him in The Derby and the Arc" just gets my goat. My opinion is, that he just had far too much speed for him to be guaranteed to stay a mile-and-a-half in classic company. Come on now, let's just be happy we saw a truly great racehorse who, thank goodness, remained unbeaten.

End of rant.............with no daft emoticon.
 
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Just because he was very fast it doesn't mean he won't stay a mile and a half, after all his pedigree always suggested he would do, with his full brother winning over 1m4. Frankel himself even won over an extended 1m2. So I'd of been 99% sure he'd of got the trip no problem in the derby.

I think the reason they didn't go for the Derby was because they didn't want to risk him not settling and getting lit up, much like what happened with Dawn Approach. I don't think staying the trip was ever the issue for Frankel, but his temperament was. We seen by how Queally was forced to run in the Guineas that he struggled to control him, and I think this was the reason they bypassed Epsom:biggrin:
 
Just watched a replay of the Kentucky Derby! And Victor Espinoza working hard on his horse from 3f out hitting the horse 20 times at least is ****ing disgusting! I Agree the stick is needed but surely how the Americans cant see that is not the way to go and the way we have is right! No need for a performance like that!
 
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Luck can be a cruel thing. When the executors of Lord Howard de Walden sold Plantation Stud about 10 years ago they sold some mares with it. The purchaser of the Stud was a wealthy Irishman who looked set for a bright future. He didn't get to put his hands on a Montjeu colt out of the Walden's half-German mare Gryada as he was sold separately for 200,000g and became the fine racehorse Fame and Glory. But the owner did still have Gryada and she produced him a full sister to *** called Yummy Mummy(!!!). Unfortunately despite having mares from all Walden's best families (who were sent to the best stallions) the project was a disaster and winners just did not flow and eventually Plantation Stud was sold by a sadder, poorer and wiser owner.

Yummy Mummy did win one race and the next thing I saw about her was she was in Frankel's first set of mares, so there should be a 2yo Frankel horse next year. However before that arrives along comes Legatissimo. Runs a good race in Ireland winning a listed race over 9f and then a week later wins the 1000G over a shorter distance. Not the conventional route: more power to their elbow. I hope the Plantation Stud owner got some recompense somewhere in this.

Now there's the 'will she won't she stay', 'will she won't she act' question. I'd say she should stay. The 1000G has to be a better trial than the Pretty Polly and Danehill Dancer has got horses to stay 12f. The bottom-half of the pedigree is very tough. Will she act? A wobble at Newmarket when she still managed to mow them down wouldn't put me off. If Ryan can get her close enough for when she enters the straight (there's only the camber in the straight) she should get home. But if she goes backwards coming down the hill then life becomes more difficult. It is to her credit that she can act on firm ground.

As for the De Walden's they have a Galileo mare out of a half-sister to *** and Yummy Mummy called Gravitation. Her first foals haven't set the world alight in fact after his excellent start Gibeon has been a disappointment. She should have a 2yo filly this year called Girling (by Rock of Gibraltar), but no sight of her yet. There's a 2yo filly next year by Holy Roman Emperor called Gemima. It's good to see the theories of Leslie Harrison pay off. He bought Sayonara from Germany for Walden and she gave him Slip Anchor when mated with Shirley Heights. He had this belief that the Mill Reef line was particularly suited to the tough German mares. So he went to the well again for Walden and bought a mare called Grimpola. When sent to Shirley Heights she produced Gryada, the dam of ***, and granddam of Legatissimo and Gravitation. Sadly Harrison died relatively young so never got to see these fruits of his theories.
 
King Shergar said:
Just because he was very fast it doesn't mean he won't stay a mile and a half, after all his pedigree always suggested he would do, with his full brother winning over 1m4. Frankel himself even won over an extended 1m2. So I'd of been 99% sure he'd of got the trip no problem in the derby.

I think the reason they didn't go for the Derby was because they didn't want to risk him not settling and getting lit up, much like what happened with Dawn Approach. I don't think staying the trip was ever the issue for Frankel, but his temperament was. We seen by how Queally was forced to run in the Guineas that he struggled to control him, and I think this was the reason they bypassed Epsom:biggrin:
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Yes, OK, maybe saying "too much speed" was a bit off, but two other reasons, one of which you agree. The undulations at Epsom plus the very tough finishing straight, might well have proved his undoing? Also, it is always possible that the Arc going turns out pretty soft or very soft, so maybe his owner and trainer didn't wan't the embarrassment of a late withdrawal due to the ground? The two years Frankel could have run in the Arc, 2011/2012, the going was good for Danedream in 2011, and heavy for Solemia in 2012. I just could not imagine Frankel winning the latter race?
 
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Couldnt get a bet on the Guineas but when I seen the result I was surprised Gleneagles went off as big as 4/1, the markets had it right when they cut him after nothing appeared in the trials, doesnt seem to be anything to stop him in the Irish 2000 and St James Palace. I dont think its a great crop for us this season, the Americans got the 3yo's this year for a change. The Derby still has some potential I suppose and French usually come up with one who you didnt know about as a 2yo.
 
Bostonbob said:
I said a few weeks ago that the best double of the year was Mayweather to win this fight and the Conservatives to win the most seats in the election. At the time they were both 4/7. Buying money. Forgot to put it on.
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If there first Exit Poll is right the Tories have done terrifically well. Really regretting not putting the double on...
 
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