Off Topic Great Britain General Election May 7th 2015.

Excellent points there, I see you totally understand EU economics and currency control.

No wonder you were raging at me over slating UNited about diving

 

That's private debt, not national debt mate, I agree, Ireland was the same. That was the catalyst for the crash, but not the cause of not being able to deal with said crash. Since the crash the fact Spain AND portugal cannot become competitive because they do not control their own currency and therefor do not controla fundamental part of their own economy. Spain never had a strong economy in the last 80 years.
#financialoccupation.

The banks took huge gambles and this takes me back to what I said, this is what crippled Ireland, Ireland was not broke, Ireland guaranteed this private debt, and put it on the heads of the public, illegally and the EU literally forced Ireland to do this.

Now, who do you think forced the governments to bail out those banks? The EU.

Had those banks been allowed to collapse, capitalism would have run it's course, the banks were part of why these countries cost of borrowing went through the roof. There would have been a slump, if they let them collapse, as did Iceland, but a much MUCH faster recovery, no bailouts that put those countries in massive debt.

Iceland is the proof less than 2% unemployment, no EU nation comes even close to that.

The EURO, again stopped Spain and Portugal being competitive, but Spain is a special case, during the civil wat ALL of Spain's gold either left the country with the wealthy fleeing or was sent to Russia cos Russia was the only nation willing to support the republican government, THIS is why the spanish currency was destroyed in value. Spain never recovered from that by the time they got into the EU thanks to a long rule by Franco. Granted there was still mismanagement, but you see now why the spanish currency before the Euro was worthless.

I don't know about Portugal, never looked at it. If they cannot control their own currency, then the capacity to recover is dimished because they cannot compete. I don't know why their finances were ****.

All these countries were living off low interest loans and selling bonds, when the loans cost more and the bonds were worth less, the arse fell out. Not being competitive made it inevitable.

But the fact that neither could make their economies competitive since the Euro means the problem could never be fixed once they took the Euro.

Countries in the EU, have been forced to sell off profitable national assets, assets that would create revenue every year to add to GDP, but the EU and bailouts forced them to sell in a one time payoff that goes to the ECB. Which is nonsense. Look at Ukraine now, since "revolution" their currency has been destroyed, assets sold off, everything cut, the country is ****ED. Thankyou EU They are not even in the EU yet, but they have gotten Eu loans, which is against EU regulations, but the EU doesn;t care, they are not voted in, it's entierly undemocratic

It's not just down to credit, and that was the banks, private debt transferred to public debt BY THE EU and austerity follows.

Did you know that Iceland refused to bail out their banks, the UK and EU seized Icelandic assets under anti terrorism laws and caused their 3rd and final big bank to collapse and then ADDED ICELAND's CENTRAL BANK TO THE TERRORIST ENTITY LIST

The ECB made 9 BILLION profit by transferring private debt to public debt in just Ireland alone, 9 BILLION!.
#fraud

 

Ah sure, if the UK ever takes on the Euro, you'll find out first hand what it's like. It won't though cos the UK gov knows all too well that with public debt 86% of GDP, taking on the Euro would annihilate the UK economy

 

This is a genuine question. How old are you and what do you do as a job? I am asking because you seem to have a lot of interests and knowledge on different topics. Are these interests part of your job?

 

in my 40s. IT, and I read A LOT.

But.. the knowledge is mostly other people's that I've read, ask me to go work out EU economics on my own and I'd go into meltdown in 5 minutes, that's not even a joke.

Same for history, it's the work of people who spent their lifes studying history and I read it. Re read it, discuss it, and it sticks. The discussing it part is what makes it stick and what helps you actually understand it in a way that allows you extract the lessons from it. My first secondary school teacher taught us that history is just a bunch of lessons to be learned, the names of people places and such are irrelevant, the lessons are important, the minor details like names of people and places just help you retain it in an orderly fashion in memory, like a filing system

Also the same teacher told me pretentiousness is anathema to learning new ideas and incorporating them into what you already believe to be true. You need to keep reminding yourself that you know very little in terms of the wealth of knowledge out there.

That even applies to my IT job, any known problem database is a historical record, what changes you've made to a system, history, what happened when you implement new systems in testing, history. Heck if there is a low hanging beam and you bang your head on it, that is a historical lesson, mind your head when passing that location

reading is underrated. put down the smart phone and pick up a book

I don't read fiction unless it's historical fiction, which is usually 70 80% actual history.

Alas I come across as a knowitall I guess, and I don't mean to cos I ain't that smart

 

Election 2015: Miliband plans crackdown on exploitative firms
Media caption Labour leader Ed Miliband pledges to end an "epidemic" of worker exploitation
A Labour government would set up a task force to target firms who encourage low skilled migration and undermine the minimum wage, Ed Miliband has said.
The unit would slap heavier fines on firms that exploit low paid workers, the Labour leader said in a speech on immigration.
The Conservatives said Labour was "in denial" and "nothing" being proposed would help to control immigration.
Meanwhile, the Lib Dems have outlined plans to boost apprenticeships.
And David Cameron pledged to make pensions campaigner Ros Altmann a minister for consumer protection, if the Tories are re-elected.
In other election news:

• UKIP's Nigel Farage will be among leaders to face audience questions in regional election programmes, the BBC has announced
• Conservative Chief Whip Michael Gove has appeared to rule out any deal with UKIP, telling the Telegraph: "We're not going to get into bed with them"
• Mr Cameron and his wife Samantha visited a Sikh temple in Gravesend where he paid tribute to British Sikhs, saying "they help make Britain great"

In a speech in the Wirral, in the north-west of England, Mr Miliband repeated his admission Labour had made mistakes in immigration policy, highlighting the party's failure to ensure there were maximum transitional controls when new countries joined the European Union in 2004.
But he said his party had "listened, learned and changed".
He said it was not "prejudiced" to be concerned about immigration. "As prime minister, I will always address concerns not ignore them. As prime minister, I will always put working families first and that's why we'll have proper controls and rules," he said.
'Target criminals'
He set out five principles to help tackle the issue: "Securing our borders; restoring the principle that you contribute before you claim; achieving integration in our communities; ending the undercutting of wages of local workers through the exploitation of migrant workers and rebuilding trust by only making promises we can keep and proposing solutions that will work."
Mr Miliband announced plans to create a 100-strong new task force to target firms who exploit migrant workers and do not pay the minimum wage. The enforcement unit based in the Home Office would fine firms that exploited low paid workers, he said.

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Minimum wage prosecutions
According to a written parliamentary answer last October, there were four prosecutions of employers who failed or refused to pay the national minimum wage between 2006 and 2014.
HMRC, which enforces the minimum wage, said it employed "selective and exemplary criminal investigation" for "deliberate non-compliance or obstructive behaviour". Most cases of failure to pay are settled without recourse to the civil or criminal courts.

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Responding to Mr Miliband's task force plan, the CBI warned about "burdening" firms with inspections, saying any changes should target criminals.
"Mixing up employment rules with criminal offences like trafficking and illegal migration issues should be avoided," added deputy director-general Katja Hall.
Immigration
Labour

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Policy guide: Where the parties stand on immigration
Labour said the unit would bring together teams from the Gangmasters Licensing Authority and specialist police units with extra Home Office staff.
The coalition has increased penalties on employers who pay less than the legal minimum and has placed a cap on non-EU migration.
UKIP has said the the new policy on gangmasters is necessary only because of Labour's lax control of Britain's borders in the past.
But Steve Murphy, general secretary of the building workers union Ucatt, said: "This commitment demonstrates that Labour is serious about ending the misery caused by the exploitation of migrant workers and rightly targets the employers who profit through the mistreatment of workers."
'Must speak English'
Mr Miliband also said in his speech that "everyone in Britain" should know how to speak English and this was "especially important" for those working in public services.
He acknowledged the "crucial contribution" people from overseas played in the NHS, adding in future "all healthcare professionals will be required to speak English to a sufficient standard so they can care effectively for patients".
The coalition government has given some health regulators the power to impose language tests, but Labour says the process has been too slow and does not cover all staff, such as paramedics, social workers and physiotherapists.

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Farms in some areas rely on workers from overseas who, if paid through agencies, can get less than the minimum wage
Home Office Minister James Brokenshire, for the Conservatives, said: "Nothing Ed Miliband is proposing today would help control immigration. Labour sent out 'search parties for people' and under them net migration increased more than five-fold."
He said the Conservatives had cracked down on illegal working and would seek to change EU free movement rules if they won the election.
The Liberal Democrats also mention English language in their manifesto, saying people who cannot speak good English and want to claim Jobseeker's Allowance should have to attend courses.
The Conservatives say EU migrants should have to wait four years before they can claim certain benefits or social housing and that child benefit payments should not be made for children living outside the UK.
Recently, some Labour figures complained about the party's messages on immigration. David Lammy warned that the party should not be "trying to out-UKIP UKIP".
Pensions help
The Conservatives' key announcement on Saturday is that pensions campaigner Ros Altmann would be made a Tory peer and given responsibility for financial education and consumer protection.
David Cameron says he wants the "country's leading expert" on these issues to be at the heart of government, helping give people "more power to save, to access their pension, to pass their pension on to their children".
The Liberal Democrats focused on apprenticeships, with a promise the party would double the number of employers offering apprenticeships to young people. Business Secretary Vince Cable said this would mean 360,000 firms offering on-the-job training.
Companies would be offered exemptions from National Insurance and apprenticeship grants as extra incentives. The policy would mean the creation of "more apprenticeship starts per year than Germany", he said.
Subscribe to the BBC Election 2015 newsletter to get a round-up of the day's campaign news sent to your inbox every weekday afternoon.

Election 2015: Farage quotes Gandhi to describe his struggle

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UKIP leader Nigel Farage has compared his battle against the UK political establishment to Mahatma Gandhi's struggle for Indian independence.
He told supporters at a rally in Kent: "I am challenging the establishment, I am taking on the status quo."
He said anybody who had done that throughout history had been attacked for their beliefs.
Quoting Gandhi, he said: "At first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
In his speech at Sandwich, Mr Farage said UKIP had endured levels of abuse that "don't generally get thrown at political parties".
"But then again I am challenging the establishment aren't I?," he told supporters.
"I am taking on the status quo. I am taking on their very, very comfortable lives.
"But if you look through history anybody that challenges the status quo, whether in business, science or politics, they have a go at you.
"And it was Gandhi, of course, who said 'first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win'."
The quote, which was delivered with a smile, rounded off Mr Farage's speech and he repeated it later during a question and answer session.
It is one of the most widely quoted of Gandhi's maxims, summing up his philosophy of "insistence on truth" that underpinned his belief in non-violent resistance.
But according to the Christian Science Monitor, there is no evidence that the civil rights campaigner ever said it.

 

UKIP leader Nigel Farage has compared his battle against the UK political establishment to Mahatma Gandhi's struggle for Indian independence.

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Must speak English'
Mr Miliband also said in his speech that "everyone in Britain" should know how to speak English and this was "especially important" for those working in public services.
He acknowledged the "crucial contribution" people from overseas played in the NHS, adding in future "all healthcare professionals will be required to speak English to a sufficient standard so they can care effectively for patients".


This is all very well and good, be nice if there was some prevision for assisting with language courses or the like in stead of just demanding people speak English.
Some sort of integration plan for immigrants that are given Visas, who want to integrate, would be good.

It's ****ing ovbious if people are going to work in an English language job they need English, isn;t that down to each individual employer to ensure that actually happens

 

There is plenty of provision for teaching people in other countries to speak English, it is called their own education system. You seem like you are well traveled, the vast majority of people you meet (in europe at least), in any kind of public service job can speak some level of English. Even if they cant then they can foot the bill themselves before travelling here.

 

Most people have English when they come to the UK, some don't for various reasons, it's not that simple

Sometimes there is not time, I had no time to learn finnish before I came here due to the rashness of my other half in getting back here. She was preggo with our second and wanted the kid to be born here.


I didn't HAVE to take a finnish course, but I was offered an integration service, because such things benefit me and the Finnish economy as it creates jobs for teachers and assists me in getting jobs having Finnish skills.

 

Thing is, if someone is coming to work in a relative's say, indian restaurant in the UK, they might not need English, so testing them and their visa depending on that would be unfair.

Employers make sure the applicant can speak english if english is required, any other method is ****ing stupid and xenophobic.

If they are not fluent and that is a requirement, then they don't get the job.

Just more anti immigrant bullshit

They're all trying to steal UKIP voters

 

Havent spent any time reading about the finnish economy but would imagine its very different to ours, again I could be wrong but I also dont imagine there are queues of people who do speak finnish wanting to go there.

 

There are more jobs in the UK the UK economy is far better than the Finnish economy I would imagine, jobs are very hard to come by here if you are foreign, and really hard to come by if you have no finnish, still they won't stop you comng in if you have no Finnish, they help you integrate if you need it.

Employers hadle the language requirements for any given job because well, that's just common sense, any other method is stupid.

If you have people working for the NHS who have little to no English, who's fault is that? The recruitment people in the NHS not the immigrant's

 

I guess different people have different opinions on society.

You can think "well, the cost of such integration is not a good thing"
But the economy benefits from it. People benefit from it.

And everyone ignores the tax havens, banker fraud, quangos and epic tax evasion and corruption. Enough to make education free for every living soul in the UK with £billions to spare

 

Hmmm. No you don't Sis, you really don't.

 

Sisu, I live and work in a city that is 2/3rds black. Trust me, even minorities make jokes about the "race card" and people who blame everything on racism rather than themselves. (less so than whites, but most acknowledge that it is a thing)

If you ever watched Eddie Murphies Boomerang , there was a character in it that was ridiculed for blaming everything on race.

If you read my comment on Barnes in full, you will see I portrayed Barnes as pretty level-headed, not the kind that yells "racism" at every little thing. I was also responding to early comments from people saying he was playing the race card.

He is, and I respect him. (I commented how it was fishy how few black managers there were, although Barnes himself isn't a good one). I think racism, if only at a subconscious level is involved somewhere along the way.

Quite frankly speaking Sisu, an Irish lad living in Finland, you're really quite naive in your opinions on the subject. You've neither been a minority race nor lived with large number of people who have.

You form an opinion (whether it is Ukraine/Russia or racism) and then try to find facts to support it rather than look at facts and form an opinion based on the facts.

And once you're proven wrong you dig a hole building a barricade of strawmen, insults, and accusations against other people's characters.

 

I usually ignore your posts, because you just show up and troll me.

Your a fat useless plastic socialist who is really just a prick, I usually wipe the likes of you off my show donga.

I do not have historical or political discussions on here you bellend, I have them with people of similar interests, face to face where they don't slate me because they don't agree with me, proper debate, not this crap you seem to think is debate, as you wouldn't face to face you cowardly fat prick. I hate smart asses that hide behind keyboards and think they can be dicks because they are anonymous

Now **** off, you being nothing but your smarmy plastic socialist attitude on here.

Your post just proves my point about you. Loser



Ever since the 9\11 thread you've been a prick, go check yourself you fat plastic socialist, maybe go learn about socialism you idiot because you truly are not such. You started slating me personally on that thread and I eventually lost the cool. I guess I get rightly ****ed off when a red gets all like that, I expect it from other team's supporters, I guess I expect my own "tribe" to have higher standards.

#clueless
#fat
#useless

 

The problem is when entire communities form that speak a language other than the native language.

In the US there a large areas where one can get by functioning every day without knowing English. Large sectors of cities where everyone speaks Mandarin, Polish, or more commonly Spanish.

It's not much a problem that they can get by. It doesn't matter if their day to day communications are in English, French, or pig Latin. The problem is in logistics. It makes policing, providing fair legal representation and administration harder and more costly.

As long as immigration is even spread, yes immigrants will learn English by necessity. If communities form, they can get by without English and many will.

For logistical reasons it helps to have a nation that understand a common tongue.

Not sure the solution. Multiple tongues is a problem though.

 

I can see what you mean, the Aussies deal with that by stopping the formation of little China's and so on by splitting immigrant populations up, only so many can be located in a zone. It promotes better integration and obviously better English learning as a result.

 

Fook me how racist and xenophobic is that then? you cannot live there because you are the wrong colour! no wonder Farage wants an australian style immigration system.