Off Topic The General Election Countdown and Aftermath

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For all its faults, the health SERVICE is still way more efficient than the US style system -the clue is in the big word!
Ideology dictates that a capitalist wants to make money out of any situation-a socialist values humanity above money
 
Like the USSR and China?

The only good reason for keeping the health service is that people vote for it, and we are a democracy.

Having lived in countries that have totally private health systems, they work and can be very efficient.
 
Is the NHS free to most people? They pay NI contributions all their working life. Isn't that meant to help fund the NHS and State Pension to some extent? I suspect most people who can afford private health care actually do take that option. Also many are covered by the company they work for.

In France workers pay social contributions /taxes on their earnings and these help towards funding the health service and state pensions. These social contributions/taxes can also be levied on pension and investment income and capital gains (more info here). However, these contributions do not secure totally free health cover and top up insurance is needed to pay for anything not covered by the health service. The service and facilities are first class. People on very low incomes are exempt from these charges and are fully covered. Those in receipt of a state pension in France and are also exempt from the charges but still require top up insurance.

I think it would be a good system for the UK as more people could afford the top up insurance as opposed to the full private health care premiums charged by BUPA and PPP. It would also cap the NHS budget required to provide a better health service.

Although France is often criticised, I can honestly say that the health service in France is far superior to that in the UK and they are also more successful at funding horse racing.
 
Im sure like myself your minds have been putat ease by labour announcing they have costed all their election manifesto! Guess we are sorted then! <laugh><laugh><laugh> feckin ed balls admits he struggles with his times tables
 
George has promised £8bn to the NHS, refusing to say how it will be funded. Does this mean he hasn't a clue yet or that he doesn't want to give away the source. I wonder if he will introduce a way of funding it from extra taxes, as in France.
 
Agree the French system is better at the point of service than the UK. Whether they can actually afford it is another problem, but they are not alone in that.
 
NHS needs 8billion.politician says he has it! Wouldnt be the lead upto an election now would it? Better the devil you know than the feckwhits you knew! Had plenty of dealings with nhs recently and im proud we have it.
 
Ron said:
I just have a problem with the prospect of changing leaderships leading to short termism and the fact that probably a very high % of people voting are voting for what is best for them, rather than for the country as a whole.
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We always have short termism. Politicians only look as far as the next election and we go from spend, spend, spend Labour to cut, cut, cut Conservative every few years as one digs the holes and the other fills them in. The conflict between the ideologies is the principal reason why the NHS and the Welfare State are such a mess.
 
Ron said:
Is the NHS free to most people? They pay NI contributions all their working life. Isn't that meant to help fund the NHS and State Pension to some extent? ...

Although France is often criticised, I can honestly say that the health service in France is far superior to that in the UK and they are also more successful at funding horse racing.
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The NHS is free to no-one except those who do not pay any National Insurance (i.e. children, the unemployed). There is a common perception that the government squirrels away our National Insurance to pay for our State Pensions. In fact today’s National Insurance pays for today’s pensions, which means that in the dim and distant future when I retire the workers of the day will be paying my State Pension whilst today I am paying my parent’s pensions. Nobody is tackling the demographic timebomb built therein – more pensioners living longer but the payments not expanding accordingly.

The political football with the NHS is the “free at point of use” ideal. I would let the private sector do more if they could provide the same quality of service at the same price (whilst, obviously, making a profit for themselves).

I am not sure what relationship there is between the set up of health care and sport funding over the Channel. France does not have any bookmakers taking profits from their punters. The state betting monopoly keeps funding horse racing even though nobody attends most of the meetings, although it has not gone unnoticed that austerity has caused France Galop to increase admission charges at the big meetings in recent years and even charge for race cards at the Arc meeting even though they get millions of Euros in sponsorship from the Qataris. All is not that healthy in the socialist garden.
 
gazboy said:
Im sure like myself your minds have been putat ease by labour announcing they have costed all their election manifesto! Guess we are sorted then!
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Apparently Ed Miliband is ready to lead the country. I can see the cliff but is he really the best lemming we can find?

Appropriate that they chose the 13th to launch their manifesto. They are already in a pickle because they say that they are going to have debt falling as a percentage of GDP, which means that they need GDP to keep rising because they are going to let the deficit rise and, like the Tories, cost their proposals based on more tax revenue from increasing GDP. Do I recall somebody from Labour previously promising “prudence” but leaving the coffers empty?

The IFS has already said that Labour’s plan to raise the tax rate to 50p (as they did shortly before they last left office) is unlikely to raise any extra money. There must be a lot of £2m Mansions to Tax as the NHS is getting £2.5bn from that.

The only “Budget Responsibility Lock” that we need is the one that keeps Ed Balls out of 11 Downing Street. His kids get their pocket money from Yvette Cooper because they know dad cannot add up.
 
Ron said:
George has promised £8bn to the NHS, refusing to say how it will be funded. Does this mean he hasn't a clue yet or that he doesn't want to give away the source.
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The Tories are not prepared to tell anyone where the axe will fall for the £12bn of cuts they have announced and I would not be at all surprised if the extra £8bn for the NHS is largely dependent on GDP continuing to rise thus generating additional tax revenues. When the Tories announce their manifesto, will they answer any of the funding questions?
 
Is the NHS in such a mess? My 84 year old dad had a hip replacement last month and it's completely changed his life for the better. He can walk to the shops for the first time in ages. Whether you believe we as a country can afford to treat old people that well, probably depends on your own set of values. But my dad's grateful for his new hip and grateful to the African surgeon who performed the operation. We should beware moaning about the NHS. We all used to moan about British Rail when that was in public hands. Look at the mess we replaced it with when we flogged it off for profit
 
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My major concern is miliband being Red Lens pawn after all he certainly shouldnt have beaten his brother on merit!
 
Archers Road said:
Is the NHS in such a mess? My 84 year old dad had a hip replacement last month and it's completely changed his life for the better. He can walk to the shops for the first time in ages. Whether you believe we as a country can afford to treat old people that well, probably depends on your own set of values. But my dad's grateful for his new hip and grateful to the African surgeon who performed the operation. We should beware moaning about the NHS. We all used to moan about British Rail when that was in public hands. Look at the mess we replaced it with when we flogged it off for profit
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How long was he waiting for the hip replacement? A friend of mine had to walk around in agony for 6 months whilst he was waiting his turn:biggrin:
 
King Shergar said:
How long was he waiting for the hip replacement? A friend of mine had to walk around in agony for 6 months whilst he was waiting his turn:biggrin:
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He had to wait a long time, at least 6 months from diagnosis to treatment, and yeah, he was in a lot of pain. Came good in the end though.

gazboy said:
My major concern is miliband being Red Lens pawn after all he certainly shouldnt have beaten his brother on merit!
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Few would deny that the Labour party appears to have been saddled with the wrong Miliband. By Red Len, do you mean McCluskey? He is a bit of a dinosaur, but in an age of toothless unions, at least he's got a bit of bite.
 
Yeah mccluskey the leninist/stalinist/marxistwhatever. Yet another champagne socialist/hypocritical delusional nutter. labour aint for me ;-)
 
The NHS is one of the best things introduced in the UK; maybe the best. But I come back to the French system as I think it is a good model. Everyone is issued with a health card. Depending on the individual's situation this card will entitle you to completely free health treatment or treatment that, in some cases, will result in additional cost (which should be covered by top up insurance). Effectively everyone is treated as a "private patient". Some illnesses/accidents do not need topping up at all but it does ensure that the better off pay something towards the service and the poorer person gets a first class health service completely free. By completely free I mean no contributions either.
 
Ron e pecting someone to produce a card that shows them less worthy than someone else would end up in the human court of human rights. At which point the card would be a fake and the person in question would have got here illegally but would end up in The Dorchester at the tax payers expense whilst their 998 appeals were heard!
 
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