Daily Racing Thread Thursday 9th. April 2015

[Benvenuto Cellini]

Not sure you can claim Jezki was the class horse from the race. He won, but he'd of stood no chance with Arctic Fire had he jumped the last. He was travelling all over him

I thought Jezki had him to be honest, both of them travelled well into the race and they were jumping the last level, you would expect Arctic Fire to be asked last as he has more speed than Jezki but this time it was a decent gallop and I think Jezki would have seen him off up the run in.

Shows the Champion run at a false pace was a throw out form wise as expected, and considering what Jezki has done in his carreer, and what Arctic Fire has done in his, I dont see how its possible that Jezki couldnt have been considered the class horse in the race. Multiple Grade 1 winning Champion Hurdler agaisnt a maiden and 15k novice hurdle winner.

 

[beeforsalmon]

Not sure you can claim Jezki was the class horse from the race. He won, but he'd of stood no chance with Arctic Fire had he jumped the last. He was travelling all over him

I can't take someone who earned that username too seriously Shergy lol Remember this is someone who laid Vautour, Faugheen, UDS and Douvan for the lot lol

 

[beeforsalmon]

I thought Jezki had him to be honest, both of them travelled well into the race and they were jumping the last level, you would expect Arctic Fire to be asked last as he has more speed than Jezki but this time it was a decent gallop and I think Jezki would have seen him off up the run in.

Shows the Champion run at a false pace was a throw out form wise as expected, and considering what Jezki has done in his carreer, and what Arctic Fire has done in his, I dont see how its possible that Jezki couldnt have been considered the class horse in the race. Multiple Grade 1 winning Champion Hurdler agaisnt a maiden and 15k novice hurdle winner.

You obviously haven't seen how Arctic Fire finishes his races. Few horses finish stronger than him.

Another point is Jezki did run to form in the Champion, he was 2l behind Fly after all. Hard to say otherwise when the score between them is what 6-2 in favour of the Fly

He improved today with the step up to 2m4, but I think we know over 2m he's vulnerable. His record suggests this. He was just lucky to be in a weak Champion Hurdle, where the 1 class act in the field under performed towards the end of the season.

Silvi was all out to beat Ballynagour, class act alright lol

 

[Benvenuto Cellini]

I dont think it was a weak Champion Hurdle but thats irrelevant, it was a truly run Champion Hurdle and I trust the form whatever it amounts to, this years form isnt worth the paper its written on.

Think almost everyone would agree Jezki is trained for one race at the end of the season, while Hurricane Fly is out to win those mid season races and its pointless to compare their form from different stages of the season. At this stage of the season, people expect Jezki to beat Hurricane Fly now that he is 11yo, and rightly so, great horse that The Fly is.

As for Conti, all im saying is he was the class horse in the race and it was hard not to back him, as is seen by the vast majority on here being on him at a good price. End of the day he won and thats all that matters today, he wont be remembered for this race today, hes had much better days.

 

[beeforsalmon]

I dont think it was a weak Champion Hurdle but thats irrelevant, it was a truly run Champion Hurdle and I trust the form whatever it amounts to, this years form isnt worth the paper its written on.
.

Do you not think Faugheen was the best horse in the race then?

As for Conti, he'll be remembered for being found out repeatedly in the Gold Cup. He simply beats substandard horses or non stayers. In the race that matters the most he's a complete dodgepot to use your lingo!

 

[King Shergar]

I thought Jezki had him to be honest, both of them travelled well into the race and they were jumping the last level, you would expect Arctic Fire to be asked last as he has more speed than Jezki but this time it was a decent gallop and I think Jezki would have seen him off up the run in.

Shows the Champion run at a false pace was a throw out form wise as expected, and considering what Jezki has done in his carreer, and what Arctic Fire has done in his, I dont see how its possible that Jezki couldnt have been considered the class horse in the race. Multiple Grade 1 winning Champion Hurdler agaisnt a maiden and 15k novice hurdle winner.

You don't half talk some rubbish! On races won yes Jezki has achieved more, but that's irrelevant to how much class a horse has. Jezki just got fortunate that he had the opportunity to win a poor renewal of the CH. We all seen the difference in class between the pair at Cheltenham this year and it was quite clear Arctic Fire was travelling all over Jezki today going to the last looking like the class horse. Arctic Fire scooted clear from him at Cheltenham and he would of done the same today. He hadn't even been asked a question by Ruby, where as McCoy was very animated.

You claim that you have been proved right about this years CH form, yet the only horse Jezki reversed form with was a horse that fell, who was travelling all over him.

If you honestly think Jezki proved to be, or won like the class horse today, then I'd really question your intelligence. I suppose you also think Glens Melody has more class than Annie Power

 

[Benvenuto Cellini]

Do you not think Faugheen was the best horse in the race then?

As for Conti, he'll be remembered for being found out repeatedly in the Gold Cup. He simply beats substandard horses or non stayers. In the race that matters the most he's a complete dodgepot to use your lingo!

Ive said about 10 times already I think the best horse won the race.

Ive never fancied Conti in a Gold Cup and his backers wanted locking up this year again to use my lingo, but back on a flat track today you expect him to bounce back. Hes nothing out of the ordinary, just a good staying chaser but hes not in with your Kautos Stars, and your right its been a weak division since those legends retired.

 

[Benvenuto Cellini]

All opinions as to what might have happened Shergar, neither horse had been asked for anything really, Arctic Fire ran away from Jezki off a walk in the Champion, he is unproven to run away from anything off a proper gallop. His career record of 2 wins from 11 races suggests he doesnt like to run away from much, just ask Little King Robin and Irving. If you think because Walsh looked to be going slightly better for all of 30 yards before the last means Arctic Fire would have won 5 lengths, id really question your sanity.

 

[beeforsalmon]

Ive said about 10 times already I think the best horse won the race.

Ive never fancied Conti in a Gold Cup and his backers wanted locking up this year again to use my lingo, but back on a flat track today you expect him to bounce back. Hes nothing out of the ordinary, just a good staying chaser but hes not in with your Kautos Stars, and your right its been a weak division since those legends retired.

Fair enough

Conti, Bob, Lord Windermere etc really were so far removed from the legends Kauto & Denman weren't they! Thankfully your avatar has a couple in his barn to hopefully bring it up to scratch all things being equal not to mention this years winning GC novice Coneygree

 

[King Shergar]

All opinions as to what might have happened Shergar, neither horse had been asked for anything really, Arctic Fire ran away from Jezki off a walk in the Champion, he is unproven to run away from anything off a proper gallop. His career record of 2 wins from 11 races suggests he doesnt like to run away from much, just ask Little King Robin and Irving. If you think because Walsh looked to be going slightly better for all of 30 yards before the last means Arctic Fire would have won 5 lengths, id really question your sanity.

He didn't travel all over Irving at Newcastle though. So you are going to hold a poor run in the fighting fifth against him for ever, and not accept that he's improved considerably from then?

He didn't do Jezki for speed at Cheltenham, he stayed on stronger. I know they didn't go that fast, but when they initially quickened Arctic Fire was left behind and then he stayed on past everything apart from Faugheen.

It is all opinions, but even you are admitting Arctic Fire was travelling better going to the last. And in none of Arctic Fires previous efforts has he not found anything for pressure, he always finds a lot once off the bridle.

Just because he hasn't won many races, he has been running in tough races, and he's a a much improved horse from last year. 2nd in the County Hurdle to 2nd in the Champion proves that

 

[beeforsalmon]

Thank god the horse got up, I thought he was a goner. I just hope that fall hasn't left a mark on the horse, that was an absolute humdinger. I might have done my doe and as a former poster used to advise I just have to let it go.

 

[woolcombe-folly007]

Fair play Wooly on getting both big races correct. Il conceede you where right regarding Silviniaco Conti, though you where jammy with Jezki

Just glad Arctic Fire got up ok

Yeah was a nasty fall and glad he got up ok and yes he would have won! But that's racung and this week my luck has been in Exact same thing happen to me with th Skelton horse on Monday! And Conti his jumping won that race for him today was foot perfect!

 

[woolcombe-folly007]

Thank god the horse got up, I thought he was a goner. I just hope that fall hasn't left a mark on the horse, that was an absolute humdinger. I might have done my doe and as a former poster used to advise I just have to let it go.

I hope they put him away now for the summer and then it will be a confidence building session to get him back for next season

 

[woolcombe-folly007]

No just thought the better jockey on the better horse won

He was cruising I just felt he showed his hands too early!! But was a good ride from the winner!!

 

[woolcombe-folly007]

On the hurdles today you could argue the best horse on the day won! Because he jumped all his hurdles and didn't fall and won! If u can't jump cleanly all the way round u don't deserved to win! Glad he got up fine too!!

 

[King Shergar]

Thank god the horse got up, I thought he was a goner. I just hope that fall hasn't left a mark on the horse, that was an absolute humdinger. I might have done my doe and as a former poster used to advise I just have to let it go.

I have done my gonads today aswell Beefy

Was good to see him get up though. One thing he proved today is that his 2nd place finish in the CH, was no fluke as some would like to have us believe. He travelled so powerfully before he fell. I am fairly certain he'd of run out a convincing 5+ lengths winner!

We are looking for a challenger to Faugheen for next seasons CH, so maybe he could be the one the way he's been improving.

I know he was beat fair and square in this years renewal, but he wasn't far behind, and I think a stronger gallop will suit him better

 

[King Shergar]

Yeah was a nasty fall and glad he got up ok and yes he would have won! But that's racung and this week my luck has been in Exact same thing happen to me with th Skelton horse on Monday! And Conti his jumping won that race for him today was foot perfect!

Yeah I think his jumping was impressive. It looked like Holywell could pick him up on the run in. But SC was tough out infront. Nichols really is a master at getting a horse to bounce back. I don't think there's a better trainer out there at doing that.

 

[beeforsalmon]

I have done my gonads today aswell Beefy

Was good to see him get up though. One thing he proved today is that his 2nd place finish in the CH, was no fluke as some would like to have us believe. He travelled so powerfully before he fell. I am fairly certain he'd of run out a convincing 5+ lengths winner!

We are looking for a challenger to Faugheen for next seasons CH, so maybe he could be the one the way he's been improving.

I know he was beat fair and square in this years renewal, but he wasn't far behind, and I think a stronger gallop will suit him better

Was travelling like he'd just dropped in wasn't he, all class but he always travels well on good ground. Completely irrelevant comparing his early season form on winter ground with his form now, one could say

Will be interesting if him and Faugheen should clash at Punchestown but that heavy fall may put paid to that. I know people say that he'd have relished a faster pace but I think it's fair to assume Faugheen would be seen to better effect with a toe round rather than have to cut out his own donkey work upfront! After all he's won two races over 3 miles so for him to demonstrate that ability to quicken off a dawdle is incredible. Versatility is one facet a true Champion should have in his make up and his unquestionable ability to win over different trips and ground conditions proves that. Perhaps Arctic Fire lacks that versatility to win races not run to suit is the main difference between them. They've always rated Arctic Fire very highly though, Mullins felt when he arrived that this fella was better than even Vautour and Faugheen! He'll certainly mop up wherever he goes on the assumption him and Faugheen are kept apart. Perhaps Faugheen will dominate the English races and Arctic Fire the Irish ones, but I guess ground conditions could be key seeing as AF seems more ground dependent.

I've a feeling we won't be seeing Jezki or The New One competing in the top 2 mile races next season!

 

[Benvenuto Cellini]

Its interesting how the goalposts get moved to suit arguments.

TNO was a piece of **** 3 miler because he had only won 2 out of 5 Grade 1s, despite possibly legit excuses for narrow defeats in a couple of them, he is 11 from 16 over hurdles, only out of the 3 for the first time in his life on his last start in which he does not appear to have run his race and it has since transpired he is injured.

However good The New One is or isnt, hold other horses to the same standards you hold him against, dont slate him then come out with

Just because he hasn't won many races, he has been running in tough races, and he's a a much improved horse from last year. 2nd in the County Hurdle to 2nd in the Champion proves that

awwww poor Arctic Fire has been running in tough races, what a shame

The facts are, Arctic Fire got beat in a handicap off 141, he has never won outside of novice company, has never won a graded race, and has been beaten on numerous occasions by Grade 3 horses and if you were looking at him through the same eyes you look at TNO you would be calling him a selling plater. Try to at least be consistent with your judgements.

I accept he has been running well in Ireland recently without ever really threatening to be involved in a finish, and has become a decent horse, but until I see any evidence to suggest otherwise, I think he was flattered in the Champion Hurdle and cant have him in the same class as TNO or Jezki at this stage, or anywhere near as close to Faugheen as the CH form would have you believe.

 

[King Shergar]

Its interesting how the goalposts get moved to suit arguments.

TNO was a piece of **** 3 miler because he had only won 2 out of 5 Grade 1s, despite possibly legit excuses for narrow defeats in a couple of them, he is 11 from 16 over hurdles, only out of the 3 for the first time in his life on his last start in which he does not appear to have run his race and it has since transpired he is injured.

However good The New One is or isnt, hold other horses to the same standards you hold him against, dont slate him then come out with



awwww poor Arctic Fire has been running in tough races, what a shame

The facts are, Arctic Fire got beat in a handicap off 141, he has never won outside of novice company, has never won a graded race, and has been beaten on numerous occasions by Grade 3 horses and if you were looking at him through the same eyes you look at TNO you would be calling him a selling plater. Try to at least be consistent with your judgements.

I accept he has been running well in Ireland recently without ever really threatening to be involved in a finish, and has become a decent horse, but until I see any evidence to suggest otherwise, I think he was flattered in the Champion Hurdle and cant have him in the same class as TNO or Jezki at this stage, or anywhere near as close to Faugheen as the CH form would have you believe.

It's not a case of being consistent Eddie, I'm always consistent. However Arctic Fire has improved from run to run. TNO was probably a better 5yo than Arctic Fire was but AF has improved leaps and bounds this season, and is capable of running to a higher level than The Slow One or Jezki ever has, and his runners up place in the CH proves this(well ahead of both) aswell as the way he appeared to travel all over Jezki today, before his mistake. You have to look at Arctic Fires recent form, rather than slating him for losing a handicap a year ago. It's like having a go at Sea The Stars for losing on his debut.

The New One gets stick because he was so overrated, you yourself even thought that slow plodder could win a Champion Hurdle. There are horses in saturdays Grand National with more gears than him