Comes back to what is the meaning of life doesn't it - as humans, we have no purpose as such, other than to do what all the other animals do. Just happens we are at the top of the food chain and have more developed brains (in most cases). I can't see that we have been made, merely to worship a supreme being. Which would suggest that there is indeed no such thing.
Just seen this on Facebook! Very funny! http://www.theguardian.com/science/...edge-to-increase-interference-with-the-church
Although i perhaps couldn't be much further apart form you on the issue Andy I'm actually much in agreement. I have stayed away to a large extent as my views would be ripped to shreds and I have no real desire to try and defend them even if I could! Some have also made it very clear why they hold the views they do and I would never seek to challenge that - indeed if I found myself in similar circumstances I may well feel exactly the same way. Sorry to hear about your employment woes - I sympathise as I've been treated pretty badly at work recently (and am taking a down grade just to get out of the area I'm in) and I cannot believe the way that some people act - particularly one or two who claim to be religious. Nobody should really go out of their way to screw others over but being preachy as well just seems to make it worse in my view. Just human nature I suppose but not very nice all the same. Although the debates are heated they're still pretty polite and interesting but, as said, I don't get too involved. Anyway - onwarads and upwards and I'm off to light a candle for for a victory on Saturday
That's a funny article, this one was good too http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/dec/12/santa-claus-father-christmas And strangely relevant... If someone on here kept on insisting Father Christmas was real, most people would mock them. You cannot disprove his existence...There's as much proof for the existence of God as there is for Santa. But we have to respect peoples' religious views because...? PS: Actually, that BBH idiot probably does believe Father Christmas is real, oops
Hmmm. I too find the heated nature if some of these debates uncomfortable and generally avoid them. Having said that I find the evolution of religions interesting. I have met many religious people who are lovely, kind, wonderful people. Similarly I have met some who are not. But the same goes for every group of people. I expect that there are some lovely people who support that lot up the road, but I've just not met them yet. The existence or non-existence of god has nothing to do with atrocities and goodness carried out in Her name. Neither has the belief in God. Hate is a consequence of power and its abuse. If God exists I don't think She has abused her power. It is only some of her followers who have done that.
Not just a bit more likely - he was real. Not, however, in the way that retailers have chosen to depict him...
Good article - very amusing. I am sorry to learn of your views on this and the politics topic Andy and Dan too. I suspect that I am the prime "criminal" in that my debating style has always been rather confrontational. However this was described as off-topic so is not really intended for the "normal" hornet but for those of us who enjoy a good debate and we understand that it can get somewhat heated but usually stops short of boiling. I too was taught never to discuss politics and religion - and I would not in a general forum but I do here as I know most of the respondants are good decent people and that even when we disagree over a subject I think we do accept differences. There is only so much happening to Watford in a week and I find it quite pleasant to go "off topic" too. I respect everybody's right to have different opinions and beliefs from each other. On religion nobody can ever be "proved" right or wrong as scientists cannot prove the absence of god - only to point out perhaps probabilities and theists do not try to prove god's existence as for them faith is the key importance. It would be a shame Andy if subjects like this prevented you from participating except on the likes of the predictions thread. Surely at worst you can avoid this and politics. Ever since this forum began I have watched the level of activity. When there are no "off topic subjects the forum nearly dies - very few posts are made at times and few people contribute. When I had my year away from here I would occasionally view as a guest and was sad to see the level of chat so low. This is again "confrontational" but I cannot see how a person can be insulted by questions about their belief or non belief. Somebody whose faith could be shattered by a few simple questions must ask themselves how strong their faith is - perhaps they must not. Many of the atheists on here have declared they too once had faith and perhaps like ex-smokers we are the most extreme in our position against what we formally thought. If there is general consensus though that topics like this should not be aired I would be disappointed but accept it as the "general" will
Sorry Leo - it was a bit lazy of me to just agree with Andy. It's a fine thread and the debate is excellent. I just tend to stay out of them to a degree.
One of the principle reasons the "establishment" has so much power and influence , is because the great unwashed have not been encouraged to engage in intellectual debate or politics . The folk in charge are happy for the vast majority to remain blissfully ignorant sheep ... after all football is considered to be the opium of the masses . I'm pleased to see there are peacemakers here . This sort of discussion can be amusing in small doses and stimulates the juices, but its not worth any aggro . Of course talking about religion and politics gets us ordinary people nowhere and does risk upsetting over sensitive souls and causing friction ... ( I for one am going to avoid any election coverage ...mainly because I believe those nasty Tories are going to be elected ) . Shame we are also not allowed to talk about s.e.x ..I spent most of last year on dating websites ...and have so many tall tales to offer ( reality was a often a stressful nightmare , glad I have now found a good'un ) .
I must admit that I have become rather bored with the thread now. Quite right to have it, but it seems that it has become a forum for people to restate their own view on the subject just a bit too often. Due to the nature of the ref that we had against Bournemouth and his major lash up, the match thread has had almost twice as many posts as this one, so maybe what draws us together is more important on here than the views of a man who has taken drugs and attempts suicide when he finds that belief in himself is not enough.
I would be disappointed to think that a match thread that should engage every single poster or lurker on here (especially in a controversial match) would not easily out- post a topic that at best a small minority are going to be either interested in or prepared to discuss. Having said that every topic has its day and perhaps this one's was yesterday. Probably my last post on this thread as mood seems to have swung against it.
I've generally stayed out of the debate too... people are free to believe what they want to but feel no one should push their own beliefs onto others or criticise just because they don't hold the same beliefs! "Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does"
I thought the debate was about sharing what opinions we hold. As an atheist I have spent my whole life being told what religious people think - especially of course Christians. I find it slightly bizarre that religious people interpret hearing an atheist's views as "attacking" them. Isn't the intention of a discussion or debate to put your views (politely of course) and hear the response so that both sides if open minded can re-evaluate their positions. I have not regarded this debate as some have of people simply restating their own position a bit too often but of examining aspects of it. The debate between Fez and myself on gnosticism was one such and I enjoyed it and learned from it. I am pleased that people believe in god - without needing to myself. It gives comfort to millions nay billions probably and except for the tiny minority of militants or zealots does not harm others. I would never want or try to stop anyone believing in their god. In a world so full of misery as well as goodness whatever beliefs one holds are good and valid for them. I understand lots of people do not like to discuss the subject - as for sex and politics - but you only have to look at thehigh% of people who view this thread who also contribute to see that it does carry a good deal of interest.
Not entirely sure why you quoted me... but when I said I have stayed out of the debate, I mean that I don't really hold a strong belief either way and I'm probably not as eloquent as most at putting my point across. I'm fine with people having their own beliefs, praying to who they think is the 'right' god. It's when they force their beliefs on others I do have an issue with, and also performing acts in the name of 'god'. If having a belief in a god person makes you be a good person and do good things, then great. I don't know if there is a god... but have I 'prayed' to a god when Watford are 1-0 down, yes I have!
I have no religious beliefs but have been reminded here in Sri Lanka of how much religion matters to believers and also how many beautiful things have been crafted in the name of religion.
Leonardo...don't waste your efforts mate ...just accept the awful truth ..ie the vast majority of the population are sheeple , grazing upon the food dished out by Rupert Murdock and his little demons .... Baa , baaaaa .. You know the sort , those that actually believe the first moon landing film footage is genuine . Ok , I drive my daughters nuts as they say there is a mirror there to measure distance between the Earth and moon .. but this was obviously left there by the moons previous inhabitants or more likely a later mission .
