Appraisal of our squad and manager

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I fully expect us to finish 4th this season. United are looking like they will be more consistent than us to take 3rd and be a good 5-10 points ahead. 4th will be down to Spurs and us and I think it will be close. Rather than who will be the best, it might more be a case of the least cr@p getting it. Anyway, there is little to look forward to this season. The league is gone. The CL games against Monaco should be good fun but AW is in a no-win situation there. If he wins, it's 'just Monaco'. I can't see him getting any credit unless he also wins a QF against a top quality team. And the FA Cup? If we have a fortunate draw of home ties like last year then certainly. But any away tie against any good team and it would surely be curtains.

Mwah.
x

good post and i agree with most of it. for manager i would like someone who is better than Wenger and not just someone who isn't Wenger

welcome back.
 
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Has anyone's opinion on this changed since it was written? At the time I felt thusly on Cini's post:

Chezzers- Disagree
Ospina - Disagree
Martinez - Agree

LBs - Agree
RBs - Agree

CBs - Agree I think. Love both, criminal to have over-played them to the extent we have

Arteta - Disagree 100%
Flamini - Agree
Jack - Disagree, I keep the faith dammit
Ramsey - Agree

AM - Agree
Wingers - Agree

Giroud - Kind of agree though I rate him higher than you.
Welbeck - Disagree.
Pod - Was quite pleased he went tbh

I'm very much of the opinion we need at least 2 players, probably 3-4. CB is the bare minimum the team needs, probably 2 being honest. However, there has been an interesting development in mindfield with Coquelin. In his short spell he has looked so much better than Flamini. A bit rough around the edges maybe but he's getting better/more confident with each game. I'd still like to see us invest properly in this area but I've a feeling this young Polish lad will be all we get there. However, were I being really greedy, I'd want an all singing/dancing CF because, as much as I like Giroud, I don't think he's top top quality.

I think we'll end the January with Bielik and either a young CB or an old one on loan...
 
No my opinion is pretty much the same -

GK - Disagree, Szczesny won golden gloves last season and hasn't suddenly become appalling, he needs competition, which he hasn't had as Ospina and more than half our keepers have been injured. I think if we managed to play the same back 4 from one game to the next it would improve defensive organisation and set piece defending dramatically.

LB - Agree
RB - Agree (will be nice to see Jenks back as well)
CB - Totally agree, crazy situation to go into a season with only 2 CBs and an untested Chambers as cover.

DM - disagree about Arteta, was very good at Everton, but agree we need a top class signing.
CM - Totally disagree
AM - Agree, though disagree about inept management playing him out of position, since he arrived he's played a 'floating' role where he drifts from centre and to the flanks and back, wherever there's space and wherever he starts.
Wingers - Kinda agree - would have loved for us to sign Di Maria and play him on the left, would have been deadly. But at the same time, this is now Sanchez spot so need is dramatically reduced.
ST - Disagree - I'd love a WC striker but don't see it happening, I think Giroud with Ozil, Walcott and Sanchez behind can be a great attack.
Manager - Disagree
 
PeterRICK said:
Has anyone's opinion on this changed since it was written? At the time I felt thusly on Cini's post:

Chezzers- Disagree
Ospina - Disagree
Martinez - Agree

LBs - Agree
RBs - Agree

CBs - Agree I think. Love both, criminal to have over-played them to the extent we have

Arteta - Disagree 100%
Flamini - Agree
Jack - Disagree, I keep the faith dammit
Ramsey - Agree

AM - Agree
Wingers - Agree

Giroud - Kind of agree though I rate him higher than you.
Welbeck - Disagree.
Pod - Was quite pleased he went tbh

I'm very much of the opinion we need at least 2 players, probably 3-4. CB is the bare minimum the team needs, probably 2 being honest. However, there has been an interesting development in mindfield with Coquelin. In his short spell he has looked so much better than Flamini. A bit rough around the edges maybe but he's getting better/more confident with each game. I'd still like to see us invest properly in this area but I've a feeling this young Polish lad will be all we get there. However, were I being really greedy, I'd want an all singing/dancing CF because, as much as I like Giroud, I don't think he's top top quality.

I think we'll end the January with Bielik and either a young CB or an old one on loan...
Click to expand...
What's there to disagree with about Welbeck? He simply doesn't score many goals... that's a fact. He never has at any club he's been at.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
No my opinion is pretty much the same -

GK - Disagree, Szczesny won golden gloves last season and hasn't suddenly become appalling, he needs competition, which he hasn't had as Ospina and more than half our keepers have been injured. I think if we managed to play the same back 4 from one game to the next it would improve defensive organisation and set piece defending dramatically.

LB - Agree
RB - Agree (will be nice to see Jenks back as well)
CB - Totally agree, crazy situation to go into a season with only 2 CBs and an untested Chambers as cover.

DM - disagree about Arteta, was very good at Everton, but agree we need a top class signing.
CM - Totally disagree
AM - Agree, though disagree about inept management playing him out of position, since he arrived he's played a 'floating' role where he drifts from centre and to the flanks and back, wherever there's space and wherever he starts.
Wingers - Kinda agree - would have loved for us to sign Di Maria and play him on the left, would have been deadly. But at the same time, this is now Sanchez spot so need is dramatically reduced.
ST - Disagree - I'd love a WC striker but don't see it happening, I think Giroud with Ozil, Walcott and Sanchez behind can be a great attack.
Manager - Disagree
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Didn't say Chesney had become appalling... I said he has never had the potential to be the very best.

Being very good for Everton does not make you a great player. Arteta is not a great player now and barely ever was. Giroud, Ozil, Walcott and Sanchez would be a great attack yes... but that doesn't make Giroud good enough. You could stick Jan Silenzi up front in front of those three and the attack would be great. Giroud isn't good enough.
 
cini65 said:
What's there to disagree with about Welbeck? He simply doesn't score many goals... that's a fact. He never has at any club he's been at.
Click to expand...
That's NOT a fact. Upfront (as the CF) he's scored 6 in 12 apps for us.
Upfront (as the CF) he's scored 5 in 5 for England.

He's 23 - just look at Henry's numbers at that age.


He needs games at CF to develop. I think he has the ability and athletic qualities to improve dramatically.
 
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TheBear said:
That's NOT a fact. Upfront (as the CF) he's scored 6 in 12 apps for us.
Upfront (as the CF) he's scored 5 in 5 for England.

He's 23 - just look at Henry's numbers at that age.


He needs games at CF to develop. I think he has the ability and athletic qualities to improve dramatically.
Click to expand...
Where on earth have you got those fake stats from?
 
And not only that but what are you on about comparing him to Henry 'at the same age'?

Season 99/00 - Henry turned 22 during the season, 47 apps, 26 goals
Season 00/01 - Henry turned 23 during the season, 53 apps, 22 goals
Season 01/02 - Henry turned 24 during the season, 49 apps, 32 goals

Season 12/13 - Welbeck turned 22 during the season, 40 apps, 2 goals
Season 13/14 - Welbeck turned 23 during the season, 36 apps, 10 goals
Season 14/15 - Welbeck turned 24 during the season, 23 apps, 7 goals

Absolutely neck and neck there <doh>
 
TheBear said:
That's NOT a fact. Upfront (as the CF) he's scored 6 in 12 apps for us.
Upfront (as the CF) he's scored 5 in 5 for England.

He's 23 - just look at Henry's numbers at that age.


He needs games at CF to develop. I think he has the ability and athletic qualities to improve dramatically.
Click to expand...

Where have you got these statistics from where it specifies which position Welbeck has played in each game? You've clearly made them up.

As for the strike rate with Henry, I'm sick of so many people making these comparisons. First of all, Welbeck is not as talented as Henry and that is evident. Second of all, Welbeck has played his entire career at the top level in England and has never scored more than 12 goals in a season. Henry got 26 in his very first season coming from a foreign division. Henry was superior to Welbeck in every possible aspect: passing, creativity, speed, agility, movement, finishing, sets pieces, skill. A complete striker in every way which Welbeck simply is not.

And even if Welbeck did have an identical record compared to Henry to begin with, it doesn't mean Welbeck will be as good as Thierry just because of a similar goalscoring record at the same ages. It means diddly squat.
 
I happen to think Welbeck is an excellent squad player to have and couldn't care less if some don't agree. He's young, quick and strong and has a work ethic rarely seen these days. Of course his goal return isn't what you'd hope for but considering he's spent most of his career out on the wing I still see him as settling into a CF role. I think if he got a decent run at that position, and with a settled team behind him, he'll prove how good he can be. I'm intrigued in particular what having a healthy Özil playing will have. Last season you could see his frustration at Giroud's lack of pace following his through balls. We finally have someone who could utilise that (Theo/Alexis too).

If nothing else he'd be a terrific sub with his speed and energy. For years we bemoaned having no plan b at Arsenal and now we've the all action style of Alexis, the physicality of Giroud and the pace of Welbeck. I'm not for one minute saying either couldn't be upgraded (though it would cost a lot), but neither are the sh*t-tip they're being made out to be.
 
BrunelGooner said:
Where have you got these statistics from where it specifies which position Welbeck has played in each game? You've clearly made them up.

As for the strike rate with Henry, I'm sick of so many people making these comparisons. First of all, Welbeck is not as talented as Henry and that is evident. Second of all, Welbeck has played his entire career at the top level in England and has never scored more than 12 goals in a season. Henry got 26 in his very first season coming from a foreign division. Henry was superior to Welbeck in every possible aspect: passing, creativity, speed, agility, movement, finishing, sets pieces, skill. A complete striker in every way which Welbeck simply is not.

And even if Welbeck did have an identical record compared to Henry to begin with, it doesn't mean Welbeck will be as good as Thierry just because of a similar goalscoring record at the same ages. It means diddly squat.
Click to expand...

I don't see what the point of comparing them is, you can't just go out and buy an Henry whenever you feel like it
 
BrunelGooner said:
Where have you got these statistics from where it specifies which position Welbeck has played in each game? You've clearly made them up.

As for the strike rate with Henry, I'm sick of so many people making these comparisons. First of all, Welbeck is not as talented as Henry and that is evident. Second of all, Welbeck has played his entire career at the top level in England and has never scored more than 12 goals in a season. Henry got 26 in his very first season coming from a foreign division. Henry was superior to Welbeck in every possible aspect: passing, creativity, speed, agility, movement, finishing, sets pieces, skill. A complete striker in every way which Welbeck simply is not.

And even if Welbeck did have an identical record compared to Henry to begin with, it doesn't mean Welbeck will be as good as Thierry just because of a similar goalscoring record at the same ages. It means diddly squat.
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The England stat i got from Opta.

The Arsenal stat is just from memory but I think you will find it's around that. When played up TOP his goalscoring record is actually decent. (not amazing by any means but decent)

I have to say as a Strength and Conditiong coach I rate Wellbeck. He has great potential. He's tall, quick and powerful and looks to have a decent technical level - If he can get more efficient in front of goal I think the guy could be top class.
 
Welbeck is good but not in Henry,'s level who was truly world class, Welbeck at the moment is Premiership class, and i would argue that he is not good enough to be first choice CF for any top 4 side. He is good and has good attributes like work-rate, speed and passion, but as a squad player only. Who knows, he might get better, but for a team of Arsenals stature and aspirations, he needs to be banging in those goals at a higher level of regularity. Also the fact that he has yet to displace Giroud from our main CF, just shows that Wenger does not rate him quite that highly.
 
TheBear said:
The England stat i got from Opta.

The Arsenal stat is just from memory but I think you will find it's around that. When played up TOP his goalscoring record is actually decent. (not amazing by any means but decent)

I have to say as a Strength and Conditiong coach I rate Wellbeck. He has great potential. He's tall, quick and powerful and looks to have a decent technical level - If he can get more efficient in front of goal I think the guy could be top class.
Click to expand...

You are clearly his biggest advocate on this site yet admit his goal scoring record is decent and that he COULD be top class. Is that really the kind of striker we should be aiming for right now and when Wenger is coming to the end of his tenure? When you have so much quality in the squad - Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Walcott and Ramsey in attack and when you're in the champions league and looking to win both that and the league, can you afford to have a "decent" goal scorer and when the alternative is only Giroud?
 
lazarus20000 said:
You are clearly his biggest advocate on this site yet admit his goal scoring record is decent and that he COULD be top class. Is that really the kind of striker we should be aiming for right now and when Wenger is coming to the end of his tenure? When you have so much quality in the squad - Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Walcott and Ramsey in attack and when you're in the champions league and looking to win both that and the league, can you afford to have a "decent" goal scorer and when the alternative is only Giroud?
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Well Yes.. In a way. I've always said I would prefer we played a younger striker with 'World Class potential' rather than playing a 27-28 year old 'good but not great' striker. For me our scouting system and youth development is still the key for us to compete long term with City/Chelsea etc.

I think its highly unlikely we are going to sign a Cavani/Ibrahimovic/Lewandowski partly because a) There are currently less World Class CF's than there used to be and b) We can't match the wages of Real/Chelsea/City etc..

However.. saying all that.... like I said in the other thread I think our need for a striker has been radically reduced due to the goalscoring prowess of Alexis Sanchez.
- Sanchez will almost certainly get 25-30 goals this Season.
- Giroud will get 15-20
- Walcott when fully fit is also full of goals.
I think it's possible that our front three will end up with 60+ goals this term (injuries permitting) - which is pretty much 'elite'.

Although for me Giroud is basically just a decent target man this system needs to be given a chance WITH our first choice front three.
The Big man up top with Alexis and Walcott interchanging around him could end up being very effective.
 
I agree, I think our most effective system is with Giroud up front with Sanchez and Walcott as our primary two or Sanchez and OXO/Welbeck.

But will Giroud play well or be injury free all the time? No. So realistically we need another CF to step in. Is Welbeck the answer, only time will tell, but that time is limited with Wenger being so old.
 
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