Appraisal of our squad and manager

[Smirnoffpriest]

My opinion is split on Welbeck, on the one hand he's fitted in really well, seems nice, works very hard, is physical and pacey (which we've missed last season) and is versatile - but I feel that if we were going to sign a striker it should have either been a much better striker than Giroud, or a more limited player with a higher strike rate. But instead we have Welbeck who hasn't got a great strike rate (particularly if you take the hattrick against Gala out), seems to miss control and lose the ball in close situations (ie like in the box) and Giroud who isn't the most potent striker but brings a lot of other things to the team.
I think because we bought Welbeck, I can't see us spending big on another striker (such as Cavani) and leaving both Giroud and Welbeck on the bench, or selling Welbeck 6 months after having bought him.

 

[cini65]

Just like Chesney and Wilshere, he's being bracketed as someone with the 'potential' to be top class.

We seem to have lots of players with the potential to be top class, but rarely ones that actually reach it.

Living in hope.

He's average class. First choice for a team like Stoke... squad player for a team like us. Just like Giroud.

 

[SpursDisciple]

My opinion is split on Welbeck, on the one hand he's fitted in really well, seems nice, works very hard, is physical and pacey (which we've missed last season) and is versatile - but I feel that if we were going to sign a striker it should have either been a much better striker than Giroud, or a more limited player with a higher strike rate. But instead we have Welbeck who hasn't got a great strike rate (particularly if you take the hattrick against Gala out), seems to miss control and lose the ball in close situations (ie like in the box) and Giroud who isn't the most potent striker but brings a lot of other things to the team.
I think because we bought Welbeck, I can't see us spending big on another striker (such as Cavani) and leaving both Giroud and Welbeck on the bench, or selling Welbeck 6 months after having bought him.

Welbeck played this season for Utd, so if he leaves he cannot play again this season.

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

True Disciple - I never expected us to get rid of him anyway, but that cements the fact that we wouldn't. As such I can't see us buying a WC striker.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Heard about Arteta? 3 months out according to your club?

 

[cini65]

A top class squad should have two for each position and 3 for the keeper.

So if we look at it like that, there is still room for a striker given that we lost Podolski.

--------------------------------Ospina-------------------------------
-------------------------------Chesney------------------------------
-------------------------------Martinez------------------------------

Debuchy------------TOP CB--------Koscielny-----------Gibbs
Bellerin------------Chambers-------Mertesacker-----Monreal

-----------------------Ramsay-------TOP CM--------------------
-----------------------Wilshere-----Arteta/Rosicky--------------

Walcott------------------------Ozil-----------------------Sanchez
Oxlade-C-------------------Cazorla--------------------Welbeck

-------------------------------TOP CF-------------------------------
--------------------------------Giroud--------------------------------

That leaves us with a few extras:

• Gnabry - youth with potential - maybe go out on loan. Could displace Welbeck in time then Welbeck should be moved on
• Arteta/Rosicky - if all players are fit neither will ever play. Waste of wages (unless they're cheap) - one of them should be moved on
• Flamini - if all are fit he will never play. Waste of wages (unless they're cheap) - should be moved on
• Diaby - Waste of wages (unless covered by insurance) and focus/time of coaches and medical team - should be moved on
• Campbell - if all are fit he will never play. Waste of wages (unless they're cheap) - should be moved on
• Coquelin - happy as a reserve so why not keep him. Should never really be playing though.

 

[BrunelGooner]

The England stat i got from Opta.

The Arsenal stat is just from memory but I think you will find it's around that. When played up TOP his goalscoring record is actually decent. (not amazing by any means but decent)

I have to say as a Strength and Conditiong coach I rate Wellbeck. He has great potential. He's tall, quick and powerful and looks to have a decent technical level - If he can get more efficient in front of goal I think the guy could be top class.

1. I haven't found any reliable source for the statistics you gave originally.

2. So you admit his goalscoring record isn't great? He has 7 goals in 19 appearances for us. It's not terrible but it isn't that good either, especially when you break it down further. Frankly at the age of 24 and having played his entire career at this level, I'm not sure why you think he will significantly improve.

3. "Decent technical skill" - are you kidding me? Welbeck's first touch is very erratic and he isn't exactly silky on the ball, is he? His technique is not that good either. If anything, his technical level is where he is lacking at the moment. So if he wants to be first choice CF, that is one area he needs to improve on.

 

[TheBear]

Guys...You do realise this isn't 1994?

I completely agree Giroud isn't a 'World Class' centre forward but then the reality is we have THREE forwards in our system - ALL tasked with scoring goals. In fact there's a strong argument that the old school CF is a position that is slowly becoming less and less important. More and more of the TOP scorers in the game are NOT centreforwards.

We have brought in one Truely World Class forward in Alexis and Walcott is arguably World Class also.

Injuries permitting I would bet:
Sanchez---Giroud---Walcott

Would score more goals than our rivals front three:

Willian---Costa---Hazard
Navas---Aguero---Nasri

If we look at Bayern in 2012 -13. Mandzukic scored 22 goals.(the same as Giroud last Season) However they won the League, DFL Super Cup and the Champions League.

However..Robben scored 15 and Muller scored 23.(all comps)

Now obviously if we could land a 'Worldie' like Cavani or Ibra that can hold up the ball and score that would be great.. but its highly unlikely(might as well sign Messi while we're at it) and I actually think if we can keep them filly fit our first choice front three will score a **** ton of goals as it is.

 

[cini65]

Injuries permitting I would bet:
Sanchez---Giroud---Walcott

Would score more goals than our rivals front three:

Willian---Costa---Hazard
Navas---Aguero---Nasri

I presume you don't win many bets

If we look at Bayern in 2012 -13. Mandzukic scored 22 goals.(the same as Giroud last Season) However they won the League, DFL Super Cup and the Champions League.

However..Robben scored 15 and Muller scored 23.(all comps)

Yeah... Manduzkic who they promptly got rid of for not scoring enough goals. Putting aside the fact that Mandzukic is a level above Giroud anyway, there is also the fact that unfortunately for us we don't have the luxury of surrounding an average striker with 10 other world class players in the way that Bayern could in order to win trophies (not that Mandzukic is as average as Giroud though).

Now obviously if we could land a 'Worldie' like Cavani or Ibra that can hold up the ball and score that would be great.. but its highly unlikely and I actually think if we can keep them filly fit our first choice front three will score a **** ton of goals as it is.

I keep reading that signing top class players is 'unlikely'. Why? Aside from the fact that expecting no class players will never leave you disappointed when they don't happen but that's a defeatist attitude. Stop being a pansy with low expectations. We are one of the top 8 clubs in world football in terms of revenue. The calibre of centre forwards we have doesn't match this,

 

[TheBear]

I presume you don't win many bets,

Wanna make that bet then.. second half of the Season?

Sanchez---Giroud---Walcott to score more than.. Willian---Costa---Hazard or Navas---Aguero---Nasri

I keep reading that signing top class players is 'unlikely'. Why? Aside from the fact that expecting no class players will never leave you disappointed when they don't happen but that's a defeatist attitude. Stop being a pansy with low expectations. We are one of the top 8 clubs in world football in terms of revenue. The calibre of centre forwards we have doesn't match this,

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough here but the reasons are:

1)There are fewer truely World CF's about.(and the ones that do exist are already on massive wages at Big Clubs) Perhaps there are fewer these days because more teams have adopted playing three up top or more fluid forward lines.

2) I don't have lower expectations I genuinely think our first choice front three (who have not yet actually started an EPL game together) have massive potential. I think Giroud can put the donkey work in to allow Sanchez and Walcott to run riot.

 

[cini65]

Wanna make that bet then.. second half of the Season?

Sanchez---Giroud---Walcott to score more than.. Willian---Costa---Hazard or Navas---Aguero---Nasri



Maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough here but the reasons are:
1)There are fewer truely World CF's about. Perhaps because more teams have adopted playing three up top or more fluid forward lines.

2) I don't have lower expectations I genuinely think our first choice front three (who have not yet actually started an EPL game together) have massive potential. I think Giroud can put the donkey work in to allow Sanchez and Walcott to run riot.

There are more world class forwards about than there are teams with more revenue than us.

To make it a fair bet, we'll go for totals goals divided by total appearances for those specific three players for each team from game 22 to 38. Silva will play more than Navas though so Silva - Aguero - Nasri.

 

[cini65]

Although whichever way that bet goes, I'm not actually clear how that would prove Giroud is anything other than average though...

 

[PeterRICK]

I think I sit somewhere between Cini/Bear on the quality of our forwards. I am intrigued to see how good they could be together if they actually manage a run of games. Fact is, we've not seen it yet but I reckon it would be pretty damn decent with Cazorla and/or Özil feeding them passes.

However, even if you could improve on this (you can) I don't think it's nearly as easy as Cini seems to think. Yes, sure, you can throw £30+ mil and sign someone who will hopefully do the business but that money would be far better spent shoring up our defence or midfield. Hopefully both. I don't think we have the ready cash to bolster every position which needs it so I'd start with the weakest. Our attack, when everyone is fit, is far from that.

This is a moot argument though. One party likes a player, one doesn't so we're just going round in blooming circles here!

 

[TheBear]

To be clear.. I'm not saying Giroud is that great just that he can do a job for us and his physicality is much needed.

I think Giroud can do a job for us (while getting around 20 goals a Season - which isn't bad)
Sanchez could be a 30 a Season man and I think a fit Walcott gets 20-25. That's a lot of goals.

Cini - Sure, I'm still pretty confident. Neither Nasri or Willian get enough goals for their sides.

 

[Sanj]

Guys...You do realise this isn't 1994?

I completely agree Giroud isn't a 'World Class' centre forward but then the reality is we have THREE forwards in our system - ALL tasked with scoring goals. In fact there's a strong argument that the old school CF is a position that is slowly becoming less and less important. More and more of the TOP scorers in the game are NOT centreforwards.

We have brought in one Truely World Class forward in Alexis and Walcott is arguably World Class also.

Injuries permitting I would bet:
Sanchez---Giroud---Walcott

Would score more goals than our rivals front three:

Willian---Costa---Hazard
Navas---Aguero---Nasri

If we look at Bayern in 2012 -13. Mandzukic scored 22 goals.(the same as Giroud last Season) However they won the League, DFL Super Cup and the Champions League.

However..Robben scored 15 and Muller scored 23.(all comps)

Now obviously if we could land a 'Worldie' like Cavani or Ibra that can hold up the ball and score that would be great.. but its highly unlikely(might as well sign Messi while we're at it) and I actually think if we can keep them filly fit our first choice front three will score a **** ton of goals as it is.

Walcott world class? Christ almighty.

 

[Sanj]

Walcott should be given two years to prove himself at Arsenal, because for me he is running out of time. He needs to prove his fitness and then stay fit. He is on big wages at Arsenal and for that posistion there are many players out there who we could buy. Marco Reus being one.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

As a impartial(ish) observer, the problem is that Wenger is too dogmatic. He's determined to play a certain way and puts far too much importance on this at the expense of addressing weaknesses which have held your team back for half a dozen years or more (ten probably?).

There is an abundance of creative and attacking midfielders, but a shortage of quality centre backs and holding midfielders. How much better would the team be with an Adams and Vieira in it? Why spend £40M+ on Ozil when what was needed was a commanding centre half and leader. When did a team last win the title without this type of player?

The strengths are obvious - great when in possession, skill and movement up front which means you can beat anyone on your day. But the weaknesses are equally obvious - to all except Wenger- a defensive soft centre, vulnerable to pace on the counter and at set pieces and the lack of a quality midfield enforcer, who genuinely protects the back four and wins the ball.

I don't understand why Wenger allows the same weaknesses to set you back when he has the experience of winning titles and knows what it takes. It doesn't involve revamping the whole squad. It means identifying and bringing in two or three players.

 

[Sanj]

As a impartial(ish) observer, the problem is that Wenger is too dogmatic. He's determined to play a certain way and puts far too much importance on this at the expense of addressing weaknesses which have held your team back for half a dozen years or more (ten probably?).

There is an abundance of creative and attacking midfielders, but a shortage of quality centre backs and holding midfielders. How much better would the team be with an Adams and Vieira in it? Why spend £40M+ on Ozil when what was needed was a commanding centre half and leader. When did a team last win the title without this type of player?

The strengths are obvious - great when in possession, skill and movement up front which means you can beat anyone on your day. But the weaknesses are equally obvious - to all except Wenger- a defensive soft centre, vulnerable to pace on the counter and at set pieces and the lack of a quality midfield enforcer, who genuinely protects the back four and wins the ball.

I don't understand why Wenger allows the same weaknesses to set you back when he has the experience of winning titles and knows what it takes. It doesn't involve revamping the whole squad. It means identifying and bringing in two or three players.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...e-signing-of-polish-youngster-krystian-bielik

Problem sloved.

 

[PINKIE]

High praise indeed from Henning Berg: 'He doesn't have any weaknesses'