Massacre at Charlie Hebdo

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One of my ex-students published this on FB:

I do like the fact the many Islamic speakers are condemning the awful events in Paris. What I don't like is the expectation that every Muslim individual should have to condemn it publicly for fear of being named a terrorist sympathiser... (Unfortunately a small part of the community are... This saddens me.)
I don't expect every Christian German I meet to publicly condemn the Holocaust - because as a human I make the assumption that the majority of the entire human race know it was horrific...
If we spent less time getting offended at times like these and more time empathising with those who are directly affected by monstrous acts then maybe we wouldn't all hate each other so damn much?

<peacedove>
 
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Sorry cologne, but my newspaper today showed a whole selection of their cartoons and they targeted many religions. Also an Imam said today that Muslims had been offended by the actions of these men far more than the cartoons. He was certainly seeking to show that they are not part of the 6M Muslims in France. There was one cartoon I found offensive to both Christians and Jews, but I would treat it with distaste and not support the magazine by buying it. I don't think that the outrage expressed here has been about the magazine exactly, more about the attack that everyone feels on their freedom of expression. Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité is still found everywhere and people have risen up against the first part being attacked. The je suis Charlie is not support for the magazine, but support for the freedom of us all.
 
Norwayhornet said:
What has happened in France these last 3 days , will happen in the UK make no mistake , and very probably in Germany as well. Where Muslim populations are centred in Norway Sweden and Denmark Violent crime rates have gone through the roof . There are a small amount of decent Muslims who have spoken out against extremist atrocities! But the majority have stayed silent (although probably scared of reprisal from Sharia police). If the "moderate" muslim world spoke out against the extremists in large numbers maybe the radicals may be reigned in , however when the majority stay silent ,the radical minority will hold sway as we are seeing now .
If things carry on as they are I can see civil war in european countries in the next decade! As people dont trust their leaders and take matters into their own hands !
I really worry what sort of world my grandson is going to be a part of , the really sad thing is I do not envy him one bit!
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Of course it will happen here on a regular basis.
That is the future i'm afraid and Tony Blair could not see it for some reason.
We have seen them holding up plaques in London "behead all non-believers" and still not be deported
 
Norwayhornet said:
What has happened in France these last 3 days , will happen in the UK make no mistake , and very probably in Germany as well. Where Muslim populations are centred in Norway Sweden and Denmark Violent crime rates have gone through the roof . There are a small amount of decent Muslims who have spoken out against extremist atrocities! But the majority have stayed silent (although probably scared of reprisal from Sharia police). If the "moderate" muslim world spoke out against the extremists in large numbers maybe the radicals may be reigned in , however when the majority stay silent ,the radical minority will hold sway as we are seeing now .
If things carry on as they are I can see civil war in european countries in the next decade! As people dont trust their leaders and take matters into their own hands !
I really worry what sort of world my grandson is going to be a part of , the really sad thing is I do not envy him one bit!
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I can only speak for Germany here but if there is a problem it is largely one of the second generation. In Germany's case those of Turkish descent who were either born, or brought up, here. They grew up in an 'intermediate' World - neither as full German or full Turkish. I have even heard people talking about Mezut Ozul (the international footballer) saying that he could have 100 German passports but they would still call him a. Turk. Our integration policies have failed because they have not allowed Turks to feel 'German' - this country still forces them at the age of 18 to choose their nationality (because Germany does not recognize dual nationality outside of the EU). So we have people born in Germany, who have paid their taxes here, but have no voting rights. If I were a Turk born in Germany I also would feel resentment. Because as an immigrant you are made to feel that you are the cause of all the host countries problems - a message which is reinforced through the media.
 
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yorkshirehornet said:
Je suis Charlie ..... free speech must be defended.... where there is no free speech there is nearly always totalitarianism
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Sorry Yorkie but free speech does not cover racist material - nor material of a libelous nature. The idea of free speech is a great one but think of cases in the past - Nazi propaganda against the Jews (which involved satire) or the sketches which were once normal in England of a colonial nature (sketches in Punch of big Africans with big lips playing with monkeys - 'taken from the magazine Punch). All of which could have been justified under the rubrik of free speech. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
 
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colognehornet said:
Sorry Yorkie but free speech does not cover racist material - nor material of a libelous nature. The idea of free speech is a great one but think of cases in the past - Nazi propaganda against the Jews (which involved satire) or the sketches which were once normal in England of a colonial nature (sketches in Punch of big Africans with big lips playing with monkeys - 'taken from the magazine Punch). All of which could have been justified under the rubrik of free speech. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
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yes you are quite right.... I am afraid I am rather simplistic in my politics at times.... especially on a Friday evening ;) ....
 
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colognehornet said:
Sorry Yorkie but free speech does not cover racist material - nor material of a libelous nature. The idea of free speech is a great one but think of cases in the past - Nazi propaganda against the Jews (which involved satire) or the sketches which were once normal in England of a colonial nature (sketches in Punch of big Africans with big lips playing with monkeys - 'taken from the magazine Punch). All of which could have been justified under the rubrik of free speech. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
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are you saying they dont have big lips
 
colognehornet said:
Sorry Yorkie but free speech does not cover racist material - nor material of a libelous nature. The idea of free speech is a great one but think of cases in the past - Nazi propaganda against the Jews (which involved satire) or the sketches which were once normal in England of a colonial nature (sketches in Punch of big Africans with big lips playing with monkeys - 'taken from the magazine Punch). All of which could have been justified under the rubrik of free speech. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
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I agree re racism. The propoganda of the Nazis was anti-Jew, not anti-Judaism. The general anti-Muslim rhetoric is racist and not the anti-Islam rhetoric it pretends to be.
Regarding the filth that committed the Charlie Hebdo killings, there is footage of the bald one on BBC News, prior to the attack. He looks a complete dick. These terrible events perpetrated by small-minded, ill-educated tools, must not be viewed as a cry from the majority of intelligent Muslims.
 
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Busy Being Headhunted said:
Of course it will happen here on a regular basis.
That is the future i'm afraid and Tony Blair could not see it for some reason.
We have seen them holding up plaques in London "behead all non-believers" and still not be deported
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BBH - you are welcome on this board but please consider what you are posting. Some of the people holding those plaques will have been born here so are British and entitled to their views no matter how abhorrent you, or I for that matter may find them. Prosecuted, fined etc etc yes no problem - but not deported. Quite happy for anyone to challenge me on this btw.
 
Friends beware....

From a blogger I follow:

Richard DawkinsRichard Dawkins was quick to use this barbaric attack as an excuse to attack the whole of Islam as inherently more violent than other religions. It's bad enough that he uses his massive media profile to spread the work of extreme-right Islamophobes like Geert Wilders and Pat Condell, but opportunistically jumping on this tragedy in order to spread his own hatred of Islam is shameless stuff indeed.

Nigel Farage

Like Dawkins, Nigel Farage also took the opportunistic approach to the Charlie Hebdo assassinations by using the atrocity to wheel out a fearmongering "clash of civilisations" narrative in which he appeared to describe Muslims living in Europe as a "fifth column", openly blamed "multiculturalism" for the attacks and then went on a prolonged tangential rant about the free movement of people within the European Union.

To my ears, the using of this tragedy to harp on about his opposition to the European Union was a shockingly insensitive piece of political opportunism, but I'm sure that tribalist Ukippers will have literally lapped it up because he threw in plenty of the buzzwords and phrases they love to hear like blaming "multiculturalism" for absolutely everything and harping on endlessly about "immigration".

Britain First

If you think that the reactions of Richard Dawkins and Nigel Farage were brazenly opportunistic, you won't believe the disgusting opportunism of Britain First. This extreme-right BNP splinter group are such a revoltingly opportunistic bunch that they used a video clip of the cold blooded murder of the French policeman Ahmed Merabet as an advert for their online shop!

Not only did they try to cash in on the tragedy by using this harrowing murder video as an advert for their extreme-right tat shop, they also pinned the advert to the top of their Facebook page too.

If the general public thought that Sainsbury's using a dramatisation of the the 1914 WWI Christmas football match to advertise their shop was in bad taste, what must ordinary people think of the use of a graphic video clip of an actual murder to raise funds for an extreme-right hate group?
 
Dan Starkey said:
BBH - you are welcome on this board but please consider what you are posting. Some of the people holding those plaques will have been born here so are British and entitled to their views no matter how abhorrent you, or I for that matter may find them. Prosecuted, fined etc etc yes no problem - but not deported. Quite happy for anyone to challenge me on this btw.
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years ago they would of been beheaded themselves for treason
 
And this:

Muslim reactions
European Muslims have been vociferous in their condemnation of this atrocity. The Union des Organisations Islamiques de France were unequivocal in their condemnation of the attack calling it "barbarous" and "unacceptable". They called for French Muslims to demonstrate their solidarity with the victims by attending memorial events and protests against Islamist extremism.

The Muslim Council of Britain were also swift to condemn the attacks with a clear and concise statement that "The Muslim Council of Britain condemns this attack. Whomever the attackers are, and whatever the cause may be, nothing justifies the taking of life".

Al-Azhar University (which is the most importance centre for Arabic literature and Sunni Islamic learning in the world) released a statement criticising the Paris attack as un-Islamic and denouncing the use of violence.

The Arab League condemned the attacks, as did many specific Islamic states including Saudi Arabia. When even the brutal totalitarian Saudi regime is criticising their barbarity, it's absolutely clear that these fanatics are at the very edge of the violent extremist fringe.
 
Watching French news many Muslims were interviewed, all of them refusing to accept that these men could be genuine members of their faith. It is only when enough raise their voices that the right wing will stop lumping them all together.​
 
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