Wilshere and Sterling are equally to blame for me. Wilshere couldn't be bothered tracking the run. Sterling should have closed him down quicker initially and got beaten far too easily. Clyne couldn't do anything about it the way the goal was worked.
England
- Thread starter Beef
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Wilshere and Sterling are equally to blame for me. Wilshere couldn't be bothered tracking the run. Sterling should have closed him down quicker initially and got beaten far too easily. Clyne couldn't do anything about it the way the goal was worked.
I think that's why Jerusalem will never be (officially) used as an English or British anthem, as wonderful a piece of music as it is. Too many Christianity references
Being an ex-RB, he would. I think there was little Clyne could have done. Yes, he could have been in the right place. He could have intervened. He could have won the match all on his own. But he didn't. For 90 minutes he was fantastic, as an outstanding, overlooked Saints player should be. Blaming that goal, solely upon him, is utterly cheap and lazy, and a fully-paid-up-pundit comment.
Please, let us NOT descend into that debate. This is/was a light-hearted chat [aided and abetted by me] about national anthems and their ability to rouse the spirit. Not to look back at their veracity and validity.
If we were all utterly pure of heart there would be no need of national anthems, nor ultimately of competition. But we are faulty humans and we like a bit of fervour occasionally. in this day and age, hopefully none of it should be taken that seriously.
OK TSS, fair enough, but you will NEVER catch me singing Land of Hope and Glory on any occasion, it's ok to be proud of your country for the right reasons IMO.
Funnily enough, you will never catch me singing it either. I just like they sound of it, even though I know what it suggests. One can separate the two and listen to the rousing nature of the music alone. However, as a football supporter, one can't be expected to hum the tune. One has to sing some sort of wordage
Not sure I get what you mean. Ireland was subjected to occupation by a Norman army from Wales, using some English troops (amongst others). The Northern Ireland problems stem from the Protestant lowland Scots settling lands previously owned by supporters of James II (Scottish Stuart). India, Australia and parts of Africa were the results of BRITISH policies, not merely English. Check the number of Scottish names in former colonies.
Britain obviously stands alone in exploiting subjects of their empire...unlike the Romans, Persians, Chinese, Zulus, Ottomans, *****ls, Greeks, Macedonians, French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, Arabs, Egyptians, Germans, Russians, Mughals. We were no worse than other great empires and a lot better than some.
Slavery was ingrained in some societies and state-run. The West African slave trade was private enterprise, which needed eager sellers in the form of African kings who raided and captured enemies for sale to European merchants. I don't recall other empires abolishing slavery and policing its abolition with the use of their navies.
Finally, I don't recall advocating celebrating "the" slave trade (the only one?) or being proud of exploiting others. I only wonder how the other members of this "United" Kingdom escape all association with any negative aspects of our past, while the English are splendid fall guys.
I think both songs are poor really. Land of Hope and Glory champions colonisation and expanding our territory. Jerusalem (my interpretation) is more of a moan about the modern world (as it was then) and how the new fangled smoky industrial revolution wasn't as nice as the lovely green and pleasant land of before.
i.e. One is about conquering new lands and the other resists 'progress'.
I vote for Vindaloo
As for Clyne. He had to mark 2 men and had to choose one. HE chose to push the man with the ball wide and that man passed the ball to the other one. Cannot mark 2 players so it was Sterling and Wilshere laziness that was at fault for that one. Sterling really did upset things when he came on. Even Downing was tracking back in the first half in tandem with Ox and Scotland had to try and go through the middle. Second half they just went to the wings where the full backs were now on their own.
I thought it was a great game apart from a few spells where several players seemed to switch off. Milner had to do so much work without the ball while others wandered. Wilshere (who I always moan about) supplied a sublime pass however Milner was constantly having to move back into the DM position that Wilshere is supposedly playing. Would be interesting to see just how many yards Milner covered.
And what is going on with Cahill. He is grappling, climbing. The referees show signs that they are going to start cracking down on it and all of a sudden he starts to do it?
i.e. One is about conquering new lands and the other resists 'progress'.
I vote for Vindaloo
As for Clyne. He had to mark 2 men and had to choose one. HE chose to push the man with the ball wide and that man passed the ball to the other one. Cannot mark 2 players so it was Sterling and Wilshere laziness that was at fault for that one. Sterling really did upset things when he came on. Even Downing was tracking back in the first half in tandem with Ox and Scotland had to try and go through the middle. Second half they just went to the wings where the full backs were now on their own.
I thought it was a great game apart from a few spells where several players seemed to switch off. Milner had to do so much work without the ball while others wandered. Wilshere (who I always moan about) supplied a sublime pass however Milner was constantly having to move back into the DM position that Wilshere is supposedly playing. Would be interesting to see just how many yards Milner covered.
And what is going on with Cahill. He is grappling, climbing. The referees show signs that they are going to start cracking down on it and all of a sudden he starts to do it?
That game looked like what is was - a team of Championship players, against a team of Premiership players. Scotland didn`t play with the same intensity as they did against Ireland, and looked a bit tired.
And it highlighted what Lambert can bring to a game. That was the best passage of passing in the whole game. A couple of one-two's and a great pass from Lambert which basically set up the goal.
Its funny that Lambert played out on the wing when he came on but Sterling came on for Welbeck and played in his position.
England always look better when Lambert plays. He is naturally unselfish, the exact opposite of most of the others who will pass when they have to.
Unfortunately, I think that was his swan song.
That is why I was pleased it was used at the Commonwealth Games....it is about our beautiful country...I get fed up with namby pamby Guardian readers (with apologies to Mr Average Saints fan
) afraid to be proud of anything English/British. We have so much to be proud of...our historic faults are shared by many in the past (other Empire builders), but we moved on (unlike so many elsewhere in the world). Look at the Middle East, Asia, South America and Africa...decent countries are few and far between (and I don't mean as holiday destinations).
That is why I was pleased it was used at the Commonwealth Games....it is about our beautiful country...I get fed up with namby pamby Guardian readers (with apologies to Mr Average Saints fan
This namby-pamby Guardian reader also happens to be fiercely proud of my country Fran! Jerusalem is the only realistic option for an English anthem in my view.
Glad to hear it Chilco...we are free to question things we think are wrong, but it almost seems these days that everyone else is free to be proud of their country apart from the English. I am proud to be English...I recognise the things done wrongly historically (but the past is another country) whilst remaining free to be proud of all we have done well.
Police report no trouble last night, which is good to hear. FA unhappy with anti-IRA songs encouraged by the England Band (I wouldn't know an anti-IRA song if you hit me over the head with it). FA to discuss this and to see whether they should stop link with the band...bit over the top...apparently they stopped playing it when asked. The band is effective at away matches where the fans are outnumbered by a noisy home crowd.
Slightly amused by some of the Scottish "outrage" at this when they booed the entire National Anthem, which is apparently ok.
Both are at best poor taste, at worst bigotry.
I'm a "Jerusalem" guy btw.
tbf the police report that they received no complaints about the song...the FA have generated their own outrage.
That is why I was pleased it was used at the Commonwealth Games....it is about our beautiful country...I get fed up with namby pamby Guardian readers (with apologies to Mr Average Saints fan
I thought we we all Guardian readers, Fran? Then again, we're typically supposed to be men in their 60s too!
Agree with your point, BTW! See my post above.
It's a good excuse for the Beeb to gloss over last night's stroll by having a"let's bash English fans" phone-in on Mr Campbell's ("I'm Scawttish, me") R5 show, this morning. Heaven forbid they'd have to be positive about anything to do with the "E" word.
Why didn't they mention the other songs, which included:
"You're British till you die!" - obviously a referendum jibe.
"God Save Your Queen" - always guaranteed to get a rise
and my favourite:
"Are you Scotland in disguise?" - great wind-up
I thought that the band refused to play along with that one?
Nevertheless, it's not PC to declare hostility to a terrorist organisation, I suppose? Perfectly OK to sing about fighting the English in the 13th century, though.