England

What that match showed is that both teams cared about the result...unusual for a friendly. Hope they carry on holding it....a friendly that stretches both teams.

 

Well, as I always point out, God Save.., is about the Monarch, the Head of State. I realise that God Save... symbolises the Queen and the Country as meant to be one, but there are a significant proportion of the population who doesn't go along with the hype. So let's have an English national anthem, if Scotland and the other home countries have their own too. It's not about division, it's about competition.

Quite an enjoyable game that. Only the older football fan got that international fix every year.

 

Shaw was limping when he came off wasn't he?

 

He was shouting at Ross Barkley....

 

And a great poem when read.

 

Not sure how Fraser was at fault there Lee.

 

Jerusalem is the only credible choice.....It is aspirational and looks forward, rather than looking back to a past that, lets face it is less than "glorious" in our treatment of subjects of the British Empire.
Blake wanted us to build a paradise of fairness and equality in "England's green and pleasant land" without the flag waving imperialism of the other candidate songs.

 

Bit of friction between Graeme Souness and Jamie Carragher. I happen to agree with Souness.

 

Okay, I may not like england much but that third goal was actually pretty good D:

 

As a piece of music, there is no doubt that Jerusalem has it, but LOH&G rouses the spirit in the football fan way. I would suggest that everyone tries imagining a football crowd singing both anthems. There would only be one winner.

I go back to the Manchester Commonwealth Games. When there was an England winner, the medal ceremony has LOH&G music playing. The home crowd exploded with noise while singing the tune.

I'm not a big one one for national fervour, especially as I'm slightly split between two countries by birth, but if you're going to do it, get the big rousing anthems out. It's the only time you can do it fairly safely

 

Leaving aside the the anthem (I can understand why scots hate the English when they behave as if Britain and England are interchangeable) that was the best performance of an Ngland side for many a year. They actually passed quickly!!

 

You need to listen tot he words, mate.

 

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic Mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land


Yeah, I know the words well and my understanding of them is that Blake is urging an end to the suffering of working people "in the the dark satanic mills"
The "sword" and "chariot of fire" are metaphorical in the struggle to build a more fair and just society not imagery of war in foreign lands.

 

Anthems may be worthy and aspirational, jingoistic, triumphalist, celebratory or reverential. It doesn't matter; they HAVE to be uplifting in their lyrics , their music, or preferably both. Jerusalem has the words of an eccentric, inspired poet combined with sublime music. GSTQ has neither.

Every anthem needs a climactic moment. In Jerusalem it occurs at "Bring me my spear! Oh, clouds unfold!" I can't think of anything equivalent in the British dirge we are obliged to use at the moment.

 

Oh let's not take all the credit for ourselves. Our "Celtic" cousins were enthusiastic participants in the imperial experience. (The first colonies were started under a Welsh dynasty and cemented under a Scottish one). BTW the Scottish anthem is nice and cuddly isn't it? Maybe we should have one about Flodden?

 

Hands up if you have this version of Jerusalem in your record collection. :

[video=youtube;w9TbiIEpZJ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9TbiIEpZJ8[/video]

 

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Beautiful, inspirational words indeed. The first verse refers to the legend that Jesus accompanied Joseph of Arimathea to Glastonbury when he was in his teens, where they visited the Druids of Avalon. There is tenuous historical evidence for this, as all the Druids in the area apparently converted to what we would now call Christianity, even before Jesus started to gather a following in Palestine. The second verse, is about righting injustice and striving to build a better life for all. What better words for an anthem could you wish for, especially accompanied by Hubert Parry's wonderful music.

 

I was referring rather to Ireland, India, Africa and Australia as you might well have known... Surely you can't be proud of the way that we exploited the subjects of these countries, the slave trade in particular is a stain on our country's past and not something to be celebrated in the 21st century,

 

Lee Dixon says Clyne was at fault for the Scotland goal as he just stood there? Is he mistaking him for Sterling?

 

Please, let us NOT descend into that debate. This is/was a light-hearted chat [aided and abetted by me] about national anthems and their ability to rouse the spirit. Not to look back at their veracity and validity.

If we were all utterly pure of heart there would be no need of national anthems, nor ultimately of competition. But we are faulty humans and we like a bit of fervour occasionally. in this day and age, hopefully none of it should be taken that seriously.