Prediction League Arsenal Prediction League 2015

[cini65]

Jesus - you don't get the point I'm making. I'm saying that your argument is being ridiculous simplified. My point is that he is making a measurable difference, this can be seen and proven.

Actually, no it cannot. It's the sort of thing that will never be proven either way because you can't play the same game twice using Welbeck and then someone else in his place to make a quantifiable comparison... rendering this a rather pointless to and fro, but entertaining nonetheless

I've also never claimed that we'll win the Prem or the CL. That doesn't mean that none of our best players are making a difference, that's a nonsense argument.

Here is the crux. I'm saying that Welbeck as a striker is likely to make little difference to how successful we will likely be as a team (which is... finish 4th and get KO'd out the CL by the first good team). I'm not debating that every now and then he will make contributions in particular games that other players might not make. But my point is this... do his contributions matter if all they do is help us achieve something we could have achieved anyway using someone else who could have contributed in a different way, albeit just as well and just as enough to get us 4th and knocked out the CL?

I do feel though that Welbeck is improving our team, and is better than our other options - Sanogo and Podolski (thank you for reminding me that we had him as an option), and as such is getting us closer to our goal.

Our goal being what exactly...? To challenge for the title and champions league? Watching us this season, what are doing differently to last year that is putting us closer to anything other than a lower points per game ratio?

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

Actually, no it cannot. It's the sort of thing that will never be proven either way because you can't play the same game twice using Welbeck and then someone else in his place to make a quantifiable comparison... rendering this a rather pointless to and fro, but entertaining nonetheless

No more pointless than your claim that we won't win the league this year (in the future) with Welbeck

Here is the crux. I'm saying that Welbeck as a striker is likely to make little difference to how successful we will likely be as a team (which is... finish 4th and get KO'd out the CL by the first good team). I'm not debating that every now and then he will make contributions in particular games that other players might not make. But my point is this... do his contributions matter if all they do is help us achieve something we could have achieved anyway using someone else who could have contributed in a different way, albeit just as well and just as enough to get us 4th and knocked out the CL?

But this is exactly what you have been debating when me and others have been saying he's making a difference, and this as well as your quote below is the point, he is making a difference to us, and improving us as a team - every time we improve we get closer to our goal of winning things, like the cup we won last season, and the improvements we made last season - meaning we were top of the league for a huge stretch of it, and were closer to winning the league last season than the season preceding it! This year we don't know where we'll finish. But in the games Welbeck has played he's made a difference. That is the point.

Our goal being what exactly...? To challenge for the title and champions league? Watching us this season, what are doing differently to last year that is putting us closer to anything other than a lower points per game ratio?

Our goal is clearly to win the league and be successful.

But your argument that because we didn't win the league last season with X player and if we don't with the league with Y player. Could surely be used for Barcelona - they didn't win the league last year, so by your argument Messi didn't make a single difference to Barcelona - despite scoring 41 goals in 46 games.

 

[cini65]

Circles.

You think Welbeck will help us win the league or champions league, you go for it.

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

Did i ever say that????

 

[cini65]

The only thing I ever said (on a different thread, but which PISKIE decided to bring into this one) is that I don't think that Welbeck will be the difference that will allow Arsenal to win the league or champions league. Therefore I don't see his worth being all that amazing given we can do what we've always done with or without him. You argued with me. Therefore I safely assume you must believe he will make the difference.

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

MY GOD!!! ive just spent god knows how long of my life trying to get you to look pass ur ridiculously simplistic viewpoint. Ive stated exactly what i think and elaborated on it.

Yet after all this time you look past all that and think im saying something ive never said!

Madness

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

Im going to leave it there as ur obviously entrenched in ur view that unless we win the league/cl no player makes a difference to the team.

 

[cini65]

MY GOD!!! ive just spent god knows how long of my life trying to get you to look pass ur ridiculously simplistic viewpoint. Ive stated exactly what i think and elaborated on it.

Yet after all this time you look past all that and think im saying something ive never said!

Madness

Similarly you appear to be arguing against something different to the point I'm making. Your elaborations and statements are irrelevant to my original point.

If all I'm saying is that Welbeck is not a man who will help us win the league or champions league... And you're arguing with me... But you also are refusing to say he will help us win the league or champions league... Then what exactly are you arguing against?

I'm off out for dinner.

 

[PINKIE]

The only thing I ever said (on a different thread, but which PISKIE decided to bring into this one) is that I don't think that Welbeck will be the difference that will allow Arsenal to win the league or champions league.

No, you said he 'adds nothing' and then predicted that he would score two goals and help us beat Burnley. This renders your assumption redundant and is why I brought it up. I didn't expect you to dig yourself into a hole over the the next 3 pages though

 

[PINKIE]

Probably best to keep the discussion about Welbeck to the Welbeck thread though. This is the prediction thread and the last few pages have gone distinctly off topic ..

 

[cini65]

No, you said he 'adds nothing' and then predicted that he would score two goals and help us beat Burnley. This renders your assumption redundant and is why I brought it up. I didn't expect you to dig yourself into a hole over the the next 3 pages though

Spending three pages to explain he adds nothing to our chances of winning the league... And you STILL don't get it. Christ.

 

[PINKIE]

That's not what you said initially. Anyway enough of this, there's a thread about Welbeck, let's keep this one to the predictions.

 

[gooner4ever]

**** me this has gone off topic....................

can a mod please move/delete all the posts that don't have a prediction for the next game against Burnley so i don't have to go through all this BS again

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

I apologies for my part in taking this off thread. Though I do predict he'll add something to helping us win our next game

 

[gooner4ever]

I apologies for my part in taking this off thread. Though I do predict he'll add something to helping us win our next game

**** off

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

**** off

Where do you suggest I **** off to? The Welbeck thread perhaps?

 

[gooner4ever]

yes please

 

[Gunner McGunner]

Arsenal 3:1 Burnley

Sanchez 2, Welbeck Ings

 

[mk_gunner]

Arsenal 5:0 Burnley

Sanchez 3, Welbeck 1 cazola 1

 

[TheBear]

Arsenal 3 Burnley 0
Sanchez
Carzorla
Podolski