I just gave you some facts. I don't shout and I am not being aggressive and I am not bitter. I just answered your points but as is clear you are not interested in my answers or entering into a proper debate. Why did you waste your time and mine. 
Scottish Independence and other political topics.
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I just gave you some facts. I don't shout and I am not being aggressive and I am not bitter. I just answered your points but as is clear you are not interested in my answers or entering into a proper debate. Why did you waste your time and mine. Did Salmond suggest UDI? I misssed that. We are not refusing to accept defeat we are just planning how to turn that defeat into victory. NSIS if you are weary then just ignore it, as you live in Spain that should be fairly simple. We are not bitter, we are of course very dissapointed but do not expect us to behave like good little boys and get back into our box. Especially when we have won the argument with those who had access to it, despite the huge propaganda machine waged against us.
This will go on until we have Independence, ignore it or get used to it. Your choice.
"I do personally think that the Tories are rushing into English devolution, it is the right thing to do of course,
but it does not require immediate action in the same manner as Scottish powers do."
Correct.
The English stuff has just been thrown in by Cameron to further expose Labour while the
Scotland stuff is sorted out.
but it does not require immediate action in the same manner as Scottish powers do."
Correct.
The English stuff has just been thrown in by Cameron to further expose Labour while the
Scotland stuff is sorted out.
"UK Basic State Pension is £5,881. Germans get £26,000. The French get 50% of their retiring income up to a max of 35000 Euros."
How much of the average income in those countries is taken as income/welfare tax ?? In the UK tis around 33% .
When I discussed this several years ago with a German colleague, he said the tax rate was much higher
than the UK. And that during the early 90s recession, the German welfare state got caught cold by
the amount of payout they were obliged to make (the unemployment rate was always low enough to
make the generous payments tolerable) .
How much of the average income in those countries is taken as income/welfare tax ?? In the UK tis around 33% .
When I discussed this several years ago with a German colleague, he said the tax rate was much higher
than the UK. And that during the early 90s recession, the German welfare state got caught cold by
the amount of payout they were obliged to make (the unemployment rate was always low enough to
make the generous payments tolerable) .
I'm not sure why Westminster wants to appease the minority of voters. The majority in Scotland want to keep things as they are so they don't need appeasing and nothing short of independence will satisfy the yes voters. Waste of time this devolution lark. The majority will just shrug at extra powers whilst the minority will continue sniveling like spoilt brats.
Still failing to answer my point. Who decides what is a region and what is a country? Both are subjective social/geographical structures which have more often than not arisen by accident, so it makes no sense to claim one has greater right to autonomy than another. If "regions are not self sufficient by definition", doesn't that make Scotland a region? So why have you been claiming it's a country all of this time?
AS with Norway tax rates are higher in percentage terms but of course in both Germany and Norway people take home more money after tax, and that is the important figure.
Deluded in the extreme
You continue to utterly disrespect those who don't share your point of view, insisting that they would share it if they were better informed. It's insulting and if you think that will go down well with the NO voters who you're trying to sway, you should probably rethink that strategy.
"AS with Norway tax rates are higher in percentage terms but of course in both Germany and Norway people take home more money after tax"
If I earn 100 quid a week and the state taxes income at 30% , then I take home 100 - 30 = 70 quid.
If the state taxes at 50% , then I take home 50 quid.
In what universe of mathematics is 50 > 70 ??
If I earn 100 quid a week and the state taxes income at 30% , then I take home 100 - 30 = 70 quid.
If the state taxes at 50% , then I take home 50 quid.
In what universe of mathematics is 50 > 70 ??
Is this a game WY? Scotland has it's own Law it's own education it's own NHS, even it's own Parliament. Yorkshire or Cornwall for example have none of these things. You may not like my answers but they are to the best of my ability trying to answer your points. Scotland as a country is in fact some 4oo years older than England.
I think many in the south do think of Scotland as a region and that is why they find it difficult to understand the present situation. BTW if Yorkshire WANTED Independence I would support that I don't see why people should not be allowed as much democracy as they want. I think explains my position in relation to your points fairly clearly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
Cursory search, and out of date at worst by two years, but sorting by decreasing annual
income gives you the truth of it. If the UK denizen wants the same as France and Germany,
then give an extra 18% of your income to the state.
Cursory search, and out of date at worst by two years, but sorting by decreasing annual
income gives you the truth of it. If the UK denizen wants the same as France and Germany,
then give an extra 18% of your income to the state.
Deluded in the extreme
You continue to utterly disrespect those who don't share your point of view, insisting that they would share it if they were better informed. It's insulting and if you think that will go down well with the NO voters who you're trying to sway, you should probably rethink that strategy.
Ah I get it now, you want me to accept your argument. Your definition of disrespect is that I don't agree with you and have the temerity to argue my case with facts that get in the way of your opinions.
As for my point about people being better informed, yes it stands up quite well if you care to look at the demographics. The one group that voted against Independence by a majority are the one group that does not use social media and therefore only had the TV and MSM delivering the No message. I am sorry if that gets in the way of your opinion, but there it is.
Simple solution, stop debating with me.
Deluded in the extreme
You continue to utterly disrespect those who don't share your point of view, insisting that they would share it if they were better informed. It's insulting and if you think that will go down well with the NO voters who you're trying to sway, you should probably rethink that strategy.
Exactly. If the Yes campaign is not bitter, they're certainly doing a damn good impression of it! It's utterly graceless, and as you say, is more liable to dissuade people from their bullying tactics.
It's very hard to have any kind of rational debate with people so blinded by their cause that they refuse to see anybody else's point of view. Salmond and his acolytes are politicians. As such, they certainly have no monopoly on true facts, anymore than any other politician does.
Salmond would do himself, and his cause a lot more good by shutting up his Whingeing.
Yes but the incomes are not the same are they. The UK is the 4th most unequal country in the developed world that means any 'average' is inflated by our top earners who are some of the best paid in the world.
1000 per week less 70% leaves 300
500 per week less 50% leaves 250
As I said it's the take home pay that matters.
I am beginning to think that you do not understand the difference between a fact and an opinion. People can have their own opinions but they can't have their own facts. A fact is a fact is a fact.
"Yes but the incomes are not the same are they. The UK is the 4th most unequal country in the developed world that means any 'average'
is inflated by our top earners who are some of the best paid in the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
Again, hardly current data but the point remains.
The incomes of the UK are peer with those of France and Germany.
If you want their level of welfare in the UK, pay up an extra 18% in tax.
is inflated by our top earners who are some of the best paid in the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
Again, hardly current data but the point remains.
The incomes of the UK are peer with those of France and Germany.
If you want their level of welfare in the UK, pay up an extra 18% in tax.
Really? To paraphrase, I think it was Disraeli, "Lies, Damned lies, and facts" some facts are what you make them by your interpretation of them. Both sides have been guilty of that, just as in any political contest.
RDBD the figures are averages and therefore not helpful, however I accept your premise that for higher benefits you will pay higher taxes that's the choice to make. In England people have chosen lower taxes and less benefits in Scotland they want the opposite and there is another reason that Scotland should be independent.
No that is an opinion using a fact.
Here are some facts
UK spending is around £1200 higher per person in Scotland than in the UK as a whole, but Scotland sends around £1700 more per person to the UK in taxes. Scotland gets back 70% of that extra money the other 30% is spent in England Wales and Northern Ireland.