Scottish Independence

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Leonardo said:
No misunderstanding from me - just the usual deflection of the truth from you. You are just telling us about a bunch of Yes supporters.

You say 2650 Scottish companies believe it will be better for business - what you fail to say is that 2650 companies who support independence believe it will be better for business. That makes it totally meaningless. It is like saying people who like cakes say that they like cakes.

You talk about spin but are full of it. There are thousands of Scottish small and middle sized businesses that believe independence will be bad for business.

Would you like another irrelevant statistic: over 2 million voters in Scotland say the want the UK to survive. Or if you prefer over 2 million voters in Scotland will vote Yes. Stop playing silly numbers games.
Click to expand...

Are you serious! read back what you have written. <laugh>

You give yourself away. It's 3000 business's now btw. YES they all think that Independence will be good for business that is why they joined Business for Scotland and are voting YES.

You interpret that as spin!

Whereas you can just pluck numbers from the air and tell us about the business voting NO and you already know how many will vote NO.

Your comments have no creditbility whatsoever and I really am wasting my time talking to you.
 
Taken from http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Business/Corporate/KeyFacts

"As at March 2013, there were 340,840 Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs) operating in Scotland, employing an estimated 1.1 million people. SMEs accounted for 99.3% of all private sector enterprises and accounted for 54.7% of private sector employment and 36.7% of private sector turnover."

So are you saying that less than 1% think 'YES' is good for business? Or do you want to twist the figures to suit the Yestapo? Or is it just that the the other 337,840 SME's cannot be bothered to join the YES campaign, but they fully agree with you?

I don't expect an answer other than something along the lines of "unbelievable" or some petty insult that I'm part of the Establishment, a Tory, taken in by all the propaganda....
 
Spurf said:
Are you serious! read back what you have written. <laugh>

You give yourself away. It's 3000 business's now btw. YES they all think that Independence will be good for business that is why they joined Business for Scotland and are voting YES.

You interpret that as spin!

Whereas you can just pluck numbers from the air and tell us about the business voting NO and you already know how many will vote NO.

Your comments have no creditbility whatsoever and I really am wasting my time talking to you.
Click to expand...

So the 48-52% voting no will also have no credibility...???

How a nation can go with this is beyond belief... whatever happens the nation will be split.

I feel sorry for those afterwards if they have to deal with Salmonds egomanic triumphalism

I like this tweet:





Armando Ianucci

Posted at 09:37


tweets: Firstly, a poll asking Scots if they thought the campaign was causing divisions, 50% said No and 50% said Yes....



LOL!
 
yorkshirehornet said:
So the 48-52% voting no will also have no credibility...???

How a nation can go with this is beyond belief... whatever happens the nation will be split.

I feel sorry for those afterwards if they have to deal with Salmonds egomanic triumphalism

I like this tweet:





Armando Ianucci

Posted at 09:37


tweets: Firstly, a poll asking Scots if they thought the campaign was causing divisions, 50% said No and 50% said Yes....



LOL!
Click to expand...

Haven't they gone yet? This is getting really boring now.
 
Whilst I can imagine both a positive and a negative scenario arising out of both a yes or a no vote. I can for example see both major parties suffering great collateral damage whatever the result - and yes, the UK will never be the same again, partly because Westminster has never been so powerless in any situation as they are right now. However - there is one thing which I cannot reconcile myself to. Surf has spoken of many countries (both ex colonial and otherwise) which have declared themselves independent - so why should Scotland not do the same. All of those countries which have done this have done so with the overwhelming popular support of their respective populations. This situation is not the same in Scotland. Over the last 3 years every opinion poll bar 2 has shown a lead for the 'no' camp - if it is necessary to win a couple of televised debates on economics to make people change sides then this does not indicate popular support for independence - not, in any way, comparable to Catalonia where every poll has said yes for quite some considerable time (regardless of economics). Popular support for independence is when whole masses of the population say 'We are doing this whatever the consequences' even though new nations always have it difficult. Spurf has suggested that after a 'yes' vote there would have to be a period of reconciliation for Scotland and England - I would suggest that Scotland must reconcile itself with itself. Never will a country have declared independence with so many people against it - what will Scotland do with the 48% or so of people who (unaccountably according to Spurf) feel themselves to be both Scottish and British ? Will Spurf extend his principles of self determination and local democracy to cover a future situation in which areas like Grampian or the Highlands want to break away from Scotland ? The situation in Scotland appears very similar to in the UK. In the present situation, London, the South East and middle England are able to impose their judgement upon the rest of the UK - is this not the same in Scotland, where Strathclyde is imposing its politics upon the rest of Scotland ? If you applied your principles consistently Spurf then you would say 'Those areas which want to remain can do - those areas which vote 'yes' can break away on their own.
 
colognehornet said:
Whilst I can imagine both a positive and a negative scenario arising out of both a yes or a no vote. I can for example see both major parties suffering great collateral damage whatever the result - and yes, the UK will never be the same again, partly because Westminster has never been so powerless in any situation as they are right now. However - there is one thing which I cannot reconcile myself to. Surf has spoken of many countries (both ex colonial and otherwise) which have declared themselves independent - so why should Scotland not do the same. All of those countries which have done this have done so with the overwhelming popular support of their respective populations. This situation is not the same in Scotland. Over the last 3 years every opinion poll bar 2 has shown a lead for the 'no' camp - if it is necessary to win a couple of televised debates on economics to make people change sides then this does not indicate popular support for independence - not, in any way, comparable to Catalonia where every poll has said yes for quite some considerable time (regardless of economics). Popular support for independence is when whole masses of the population say 'We are doing this whatever the consequences' even though new nations always have it difficult. Spurf has suggested that after a 'yes' vote there would have to be a period of reconciliation for Scotland and England - I would suggest that Scotland must reconcile itself with itself. Never will a country have declared independence with so many people against it - what will Scotland do with the 48% or so of people who (unaccountably according to Spurf) feel themselves to be both Scottish and British ? Will Spurf extend his principles of self determination and local democracy to cover a future situation in which areas like Grampian or the Highlands want to break away from Scotland ? The situation in Scotland appears very similar to in the UK. In the present situation, London, the South East and middle England are able to impose their judgement upon the rest of the UK - is this not the same in Scotland, where Strathclyde is imposing its politics upon the rest of Scotland ? If you applied your principles consistently Spurf then you would say 'Those areas which want to remain can do - those areas which vote 'yes' can break away on their own.
Click to expand...

I would hope to see just that kind of local democracy. In the UK we have a very distant government with MP's representing thousands of people. In Scandanavia the ratio is as low 40 people being represented. This is the kind of thing that I hope is discussed in an Independent Scotland, because it should be obvious to any one that Orkney's needs and wants are very different to Glasgow's. Just as in Glasgow the different areas have different needs and wants.

Cologne you are right it is a strange situation where so many of a population of a country do not want Independence. This cannot be ignored if YES does win. Equally it cannot be ignored if the reverse happens.

Whatever happens daily life will kick back in and Scotland will continue.
 
SalisburyKev said:
Taken from http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Business/Corporate/KeyFacts

"As at March 2013, there were 340,840 Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs) operating in Scotland, employing an estimated 1.1 million people. SMEs accounted for 99.3% of all private sector enterprises and accounted for 54.7% of private sector employment and 36.7% of private sector turnover."

So are you saying that less than 1% think 'YES' is good for business? Or do you want to twist the figures to suit the Yestapo? Or is it just that the the other 337,840 SME's cannot be bothered to join the YES campaign, but they fully agree with you?

I don't expect an answer other than something along the lines of "unbelievable" or some petty insult that I'm part of the Establishment, a Tory, taken in by all the propaganda....
Click to expand...

I am just saying that 3000 SME's have joined us and are supporting YES. How many of the rest of the SME's in Scotland support NO I do not know but you would guess that it refelcts the population 50 50.

I am not interested in trying to win this argument with anything other than the truth.
 
Spurf said:
I am just saying that 3000 SME's have joined us and are supporting YES. How many of the rest of the SME's in Scotland support NO I do not know but you would guess that it refelcts the population 50 50.

I am not interested in trying to win this argument with anything other than the truth.
Click to expand...

I thought you said you were on this 5-10 mins a day???

Shouldn't you be working?!
 
Spurf said:
I am just saying that 3000 SME's have joined us and are supporting YES. How many of the rest of the SME's in Scotland support NO I do not know but you would guess that it refelcts the population 50 50.

I am not interested in trying to win this argument with anything other than the truth.
Click to expand...

Whether the businesses decide that independence is a good or bad thing won't matter one iota at the polling stations as it's the people who work for them who vote - the heads of the companies may vote yes, but the employees may all vote no. (highly unlikely, but theoretically possible)
 
Jsybarry said:
Whether the businesses decide that independence is a good or bad thing won't matter one iota at the polling stations as it's the people who work for them who vote - the heads of the companies may vote yes, but the employees may all vote no. (highly unlikely, but theoretically possible)
Click to expand...

And your point is?
 
Spurf said:
And your point is?
Click to expand...

that your stupid attempt to play a numbers game - it was 2650, then 3000 - what is it today 4625? - has backfired on you as it demonstrates a tiny minority of businesses interested enough to join your campaign - so fails to prove whatever point you thought you were making.

Face it Spurf - on this forum you have been run rings around - Spurs 2 Watford 21 - we are not Westminster loving, country Tory No campaigners. We entered this debate to find out why people would vote the way they intended to. We have found out the answer. It is because blind people like you parrot campaign lines and avoid answering the difficult parts of questions. You pretend with no evidence whatsoever that a Yes vote will somehow change Scottish politics while at the same time claiming not to know anything about politics because - doh - this is not an election but a referendum.

Tomorrow Scotland is probably going to vote itself out of the EU and out of the UK currency - unless it adopts it with power held by a foreign government. It is going to hope that oil estimates it has made are all favourable and then it is going to hope that for some unknown reason businesses will want to come to little old Scotland rather than an EU hub. It's people will soon learn that it is not worth trying to earn decent salaries as in all likelihood taxes will go up to pay for extravagant benefits promises being made.

As for Scots thinking after they have said they want independence that they will not have to have it completely are deluded. There will be zero appetite in rUK to give Scotland anything more than it has to have. They want independence - then have it - fully . You cannot piggyback our vehicle licensing and test system, our passport offices, our embassies abroad etc etc - nor in fact anything else. Get real - we want the Scots to stay in the UK - but if they reject it then they reject it. Full stop.

61 million people wagged by Salmond's tail of just 2 million
 
What could happen after a Yes vote and a consultation period:

The BBC stops covering Scotland.
BT stops covering Scotland.
The NHS stops covering Scotland.
Customs posts at the borders.
Completely different money.
HMRC pulls out of East Kilbride.
Scotland has to apply to join the EU.
Realisation the proposed benefit system is financially infeasible.
Westminster slaps a huge duty on whiskey.
Celtic and Rangers are refused access to the football league, again.
Berwick Rangers lose their place in the Scottish football league.
BP and others start withdrawing from Scotland.
RBS and others relocate to the UK.
British Gas pulls out of Scotland.
Strathclyde Police Service become the Scottish military.
Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland make bid for reunification with Kingdom of Norway
Borders wish to rejoin UK.
BA reduce services to Scottish airports.
Post from Scotland all re-routed through Primrose Hill sorting office.

All flippant and written in jest; will probably get dumped upon, but there is the possibility.
 
I suppose there are some positives to be taken for the remainder of Britain in the event of a yes vote..

The average rainfall will fall
The average life expectancy of men will increase
Number of alcoholics will reduce...
 
Leonardo said:
that your stupid attempt to play a numbers game - it was 2650, then 3000 - what is it today 4625? - has backfired on you as it demonstrates a tiny minority of businesses interested enough to join your campaign - so fails to prove whatever point you thought you were making.

Face it Spurf - on this forum you have been run rings around - Spurs 2 Watford 21 - we are not Westminster loving, country Tory No campaigners. We entered this debate to find out why people would vote the way they intended to. We have found out the answer. It is because blind people like you parrot campaign lines and avoid answering the difficult parts of questions. You pretend with no evidence whatsoever that a Yes vote will somehow change Scottish politics while at the same time claiming not to know anything about politics because - doh - this is not an election but a referendum.

Tomorrow Scotland is probably going to vote itself out of the EU and out of the UK currency - unless it adopts it with power held by a foreign government. It is going to hope that oil estimates it has made are all favourable and then it is going to hope that for some unknown reason businesses will want to come to little old Scotland rather than an EU hub. It's people will soon learn that it is not worth trying to earn decent salaries as in all likelihood taxes will go up to pay for extravagant benefits promises being made.

As for Scots thinking after they have said they want independence that they will not have to have it completely are deluded. There will be zero appetite in rUK to give Scotland anything more than it has to have. They want independence - then have it - fully . You cannot piggyback our vehicle licensing and test system, our passport offices, our embassies abroad etc etc - nor in fact anything else. Get real - we want the Scots to stay in the UK - but if they reject it then they reject it. Full stop.

61 million people wagged by Salmond's tail of just 2 million
Click to expand...

I know we have our differences Leo but, in a word, DITTO.
 
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