Scottish Independence
- Thread starter Leo
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One of my Sunderland friends has just posted this on her own site to a fellow poster called Nostalgic:-
Nostalgic, you ae totally correct that economics are what this critical decision should be based on but, from the coverage here, it is clear that many people are not basing their decision on anything rational at all. It is emotions, heart ruling head, that is winning the day at this time and that is very dangerous I feel.
If I had a choice I would not want a Tory government either. I want more social justice, more economic equality, more jobs, a fairer deal for the North East. I want to see the abolition of the House of Lords, Trident scrapped and private school charitable status removed. I would like railways taken back into public ownership and consider the same for utilities. I want the NHS protected from privatisation. I want it to be possible for more people like me to stand for Parliament, people who understand real life, for real British people.
So, I understand totally why some Scots, emotionally, want independence, as they feel this will all be a possibiity if they are left to forge their own path. But I see it as more like taking your ball home, because the big lads won't play the game you want to play. It is not the way to achieve your aims, just a way for you to feel lonely and left out.
We are better together, there is no doubt in my mind. But, in the end, democracy must rule and if Scotland votes to leave the UK I wish them well. But I do think they will regret it, and we will ALL be poorer for it.
Nostalgic, you ae totally correct that economics are what this critical decision should be based on but, from the coverage here, it is clear that many people are not basing their decision on anything rational at all. It is emotions, heart ruling head, that is winning the day at this time and that is very dangerous I feel.
If I had a choice I would not want a Tory government either. I want more social justice, more economic equality, more jobs, a fairer deal for the North East. I want to see the abolition of the House of Lords, Trident scrapped and private school charitable status removed. I would like railways taken back into public ownership and consider the same for utilities. I want the NHS protected from privatisation. I want it to be possible for more people like me to stand for Parliament, people who understand real life, for real British people.
So, I understand totally why some Scots, emotionally, want independence, as they feel this will all be a possibiity if they are left to forge their own path. But I see it as more like taking your ball home, because the big lads won't play the game you want to play. It is not the way to achieve your aims, just a way for you to feel lonely and left out.
We are better together, there is no doubt in my mind. But, in the end, democracy must rule and if Scotland votes to leave the UK I wish them well. But I do think they will regret it, and we will ALL be poorer for it.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
The latest reports coming from some of the international news sites is that a rebellion is brewing amongst Tory backbench ears. Apparently they will oppose any new deals to Scotland should the No vote prevail. Some want revenge.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
So the existing NHS commitments in Scotland have been called into doubt. This morning we had one leader of the yes campaign saying that it was wrong, but by this evening another one was saying that they were just looking at cost savings. We all know that that cost savings do mean cuts. Just shows up that the politicians up there are no different to the ones anywhere else.
Quote Originally Posted by Spurf View Post
I am from Business for Scotland we represent 2650 Scottish small to medium companies all of whom firmly believe it will be better for their business but at the same time want a fairer society than the present UK.
That can only be true if Business for Scotland is exclusively a Yes campaign organisation. My brother has his own small to medium size business near Aberdeen and he is in the NO camp. Yet another maniuplation of statistics.
"All of us who are voting yes are voting yes"
Business for Scotland is fighting for a YES because it has looked at the figures and realises what an opportunity this. The business's that have joined agree. After the referendum it is intended to carry on whatever the result to represent Scottish Business to the government. No manipulation at all just the usual misunderstanding from you
Just to make sure that's 2650 small to medium size Business's who are working for a YES. The number has grown by about 250 in the past couple of weeks.
That is classic Humbug: I agree with you but you should not try to do it, you should stay with me so that we can do it. When there is not a shred of evidence that this is even on the any Westminster party's horizon, never mind their agendas.
Think through what you are saying.
Spurf, your bluff has been called today. NHS in a mess under SG control. One person denies it, another doesn't. AS accused of bullying tactics, he of course denies it. E-mails sought under the freedom of information act clearly show that he tried it, but failed. Just stop now. You have failed to convince us, and despite your zeal you are wasting your time.
Today the French government survived a vote of no confidence, just. Was it brought by the opposition? No, it was used as a tactic to outflank the people who disagreed within their own party with current policies. Politicians are the same wherever, except for a few I have known personally. Trust in the Scottish politicians, you are misguided. Get them into power and they will stamp on your hopes for the future, and you will wonder why you bothered.
Today the French government survived a vote of no confidence, just. Was it brought by the opposition? No, it was used as a tactic to outflank the people who disagreed within their own party with current policies. Politicians are the same wherever, except for a few I have known personally. Trust in the Scottish politicians, you are misguided. Get them into power and they will stamp on your hopes for the future, and you will wonder why you bothered.
Frenchy you old unreconstructed Tory lush, I am not in the business of trying to convince you of anything. You believe your tory press it is there to reassure people like you.
It's bullshit btw. Just more desperation from Westminster as they continue to throw their lies at us. Today Gordon Brown even used the words Conflict between Nations to describe Scottish Independence. What a nasty piece of work he is. What nasty pieces of work they all are. Lie cheat anything to keep their positions.
Quote Originally Posted by Spurf View Post
I am from Business for Scotland we represent 2650 Scottish small to medium companies all of whom firmly believe it will be better for their business but at the same time want a fairer society than the present UK.
That can only be true if Business for Scotland is exclusively a Yes campaign organisation. My brother has his own small to medium size business near Aberdeen and he is in the NO camp. Yet another maniuplation of statistics.
"All of us who are voting yes are voting yes"
Update Business for Scotland has reached 3000, this is an amazing growth rate. http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/business-for-scotland-passes-membership-and-visitor-milestones/
Really? So what exactly are you trying to do? There's 4 people maximum on here who have a vote and i very much doubt any of them are for changing their minds.
If this issue is so important to you why are you spending a fair amount of your time on the Watford FC forum banging on about it rather than trying to convince those who actually matter - i.e. people who actually have a vote?
I spend about 5-10 minutes a day on the Watford board. I did explain why I have been on here already. It's not just about the people who respond, there are more who just read. It has been useful for me in understanding where those against are coming from. Most of my time has been spent at meetings and in my local towns & villages helping to point people in the direction of real information. If YES had not done this and people had just taken their information from the TV and MSM we would be no where. A similar movement will form in England as those of like mind realise what has happened in Scotland. Even if we lose this is the start of a move which will change the UK for ever, it's just a question of how long it takes.
Business for Scotland is fighting for a YES because it has looked at the figures and realises what an opportunity this. The business's that have joined agree. After the referendum it is intended to carry on whatever the result to represent Scottish Business to the government. No manipulation at all just the usual misunderstanding from you
Just to make sure that's 2650 small to medium size Business's who are working for a YES. The number has grown by about 250 in the past couple of weeks.
No misunderstanding from me - just the usual deflection of the truth from you. You are just telling us about a bunch of Yes supporters.
You say 2650 Scottish companies believe it will be better for business - what you fail to say is that 2650 companies who support independence believe it will be better for business. That makes it totally meaningless. It is like saying people who like cakes say that they like cakes.
You talk about spin but are full of it. There are thousands of Scottish small and middle sized businesses that believe independence will be bad for business.
Would you like another irrelevant statistic: over 2 million voters in Scotland say the want the UK to survive. Or if you prefer over 2 million voters in Scotland will vote Yes. Stop playing silly numbers games.
The Yes campaign use classic Socialist Workers Party tactics. They fool nobody south of the border. Smash the Tories vote for independence - how disgusting is that. I am pleased I am not one of the 20% of people in Scotland who vote Tory - they can see they are gong to live in the Undemocratic Republic of Salmondland.