Drop Whitts..............

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Swamp said:
against wigan, pilks came on for dahli and was an instant improvement. full of running, quality and desire. yes dahli provides flashes of brilliance but over the course of the season i think pilks will help us grind out more wins…..

dahli also has no pace and doesn't defend. yes i sound like a party pooper when everyone (who here went to the game?? i only comment on games i see) is remembering the pass or good dribble, but it wasn't a 90 minute performance……….
Click to expand...

If you'd seen Pilkington at Fulham you'd realise that wasn't a 90 minute performance either. More like three minutes - spread randomly as separate minutes over an hour. Anonymous does not begin to describe his contribution.
Agree about Daehli - pretty footballer but, not the finished article, and only looks neat in patches (also, gives the ball away too often).
 
iggypop said:
If you'd seen Pilkington at Fulham you'd realise that wasn't a 90 minute performance either. More like three minutes - spread randomly as separate minutes over an hour. Anonymous does not begin to describe his contribution.
Agree about Daehli - pretty footballer but, not the finished article, and only looks neat in patches (also, gives the ball away too often).
Click to expand...

I saw the Wigan game and was underwhelmed by Pilkington even though he did one decent thing that led to our goal. I only saw the stream of the Fulham game and was equally unimpressed. What surprised me more than anything is his lack of pace for a man who plays wide. Of course it is early days but when Noone is fit I can't see how Pilkington can fit into the team.
 
Fck me - looks like we haven't got anybody that's any good. I hope all this faith in a returning Noone isn't going to go unrewarded.

Ah well, the loan window is still open for Ole to find someone being as guys like Daehli and Pilks aren't up to it.
 
Oldsparkey said:
Fck me - looks like we haven't got anybody that's any good. I hope all this faith in a returning Noone isn't going to go unrewarded.

Ah well, the loan window is still open for Ole to find someone being as guys like Daehli and Pilks aren't up to it.
Click to expand...

The only decent player we had has gone to Huddersfield according to most of our fans <ok>
 
Pilkington is a quality player. Probably not yet match fit. Also doesnt help when we play a midfield 2 who are getting overwhelmed.

Ole has to get the system right and up the tempo.
 
EldonBluebird said:
The only decent player we had has gone to Huddersfield according to most of our fans <ok>
Click to expand...

The concensus on here is that our midfield is poor, our defence good and strikers OK. So what does the manager do? Buy another centre back when we don't need one, offload the club captain and presumably drop arguably our best player this season in Connoly. In fairness he must have recognised our midfield weakness so what does he do? Buy Pilkington who, admitedly on the flimsiest of evidence, is not the real deal or the type of player required.

This thread started off with the implication that Whitts is the reason our midfield has under performed. Daehli and others have not covered themselves in glory either but seems to attract praise in some quarters because he is young and has great potential. The problem in my view goes far deeper and starts with the manager who seems unable to agree on a settled side or formation and has bought players, including some bought last season, that are either not needed or are not that good.

We have plenty of good players - probably better than our Championship winning side - but that alone does not guarantee success and does not mean we as fans can't criticise them or the manager for poor performance.
 
whoops said:
We haven't seen him play yet and remember he will be absent for most of January at the African Nations Cup. On paper he looks good. My issue is that our defence is perfectly good as it is and if money needed to be spent it could have been spent better elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.

In fact id have been actively trying to get rid of some of our midfield as well.

As it happens id still have Whitts involved in the squad. However we need to get the balance right,

Weve too many players there. I dont see what Eikrem has to offer , Gunner isnt good enough and we also now have Ralls ahead of both Burgstaller and Kim.

I think we have to switch to 433.

I d like us to see us with Ralls , Adeyemi , Dikgacoi as the 3 in the middle. The back 4 and keeper need to be settled and having spent £8m on 2 centre backs youd expect both to line up with Fabio and Brayford as full backs.

Getting the other positions right would be more difficult. However Ole is paid enough to get it right. All our strikers plus Daehli , Noone , Pilkigton is a lot of talent.

Ralls and Adeyemi are young players who can give us some mobility . we can start to win the centre of the park and start to play.

Oles 442 system and the players he picks (particularly Gunner) does not work.
 
I don't agree that Manga shouldn't have been bought - he could make make all the difference in shutting down the box and be the ball playing centre back we need to set the midfield up as opposed to the Huds and Turner last ditch stuff we've become used to.

The argument seems to based upon the premise that the money spent in him would have been better spent elsewhere. That does hold some merit given our midfield performances to date, but anything better than we've got (even if available) would have cost a lot more.

The dozen or so players we have to fill that midfield 4 or 5 depending upon Ole's setup are more than adequate to tear this division apart if played in the right combination and in their best positions.

The defence has just got stronger, that's what's been achieved - something we were all shouting about a month back.
 
Oldsparkey said:
I don't agree that Manga shouldn't have been bought - he could make make all the difference in shutting down the box and be the ball playing centre back we need to set the midfield up as opposed to the Huds and Turner last ditch stuff we've become used to.

The argument seems to based upon the premise that the money spent in him would have been better spent elsewhere. That does hold some merit given our midfield performances to date, but anything better than we've got (even if available) would have cost a lot more.

The dozen or so players we have to fill that midfield 4 or 5 depending upon Ole's setup are more than adequate to tear this division apart if played in the right combination and in their best positions.

The defence has just got stronger, that's what's been achieved - something we were all shouting about a month back.
Click to expand...

^^^^^
This

We all have the option to play our 2 f/backs as wingbacks now, with 3 C/Backs we can push on Brayford, Fabio and John even Harris could do that job. That would leave 3 midfield spots if playing with 2 strikers, who would occupy the midfield would be the hardest decision.
 
I have said before that with Morrison and Manga we have 2 cb's who are quick on the ground and good in the air.

This must enable us to play a higher back line and play more of a pressing game. With the right guys in the middle of the park, Adeyemi and Dikgacoi also pressing, we should play further up the field, get the ball in the opposition box much more often and give our strikers the opportunities they need, especially with a fit Noonie marauding down the wing.

That surely must be the plan.

With apologies to "surelys'".
 
BluefromBridgend said:
I have said before that with Morrison and Manga we have 2 cb's who are quick on the ground and good in the air.

This must enable us to play a higher back line and play more of a pressing game. With the right guys in the middle of the park, Adeyemi and Dikgacoi also pressing, we should play further up the field, get the ball in the opposition box much more often and give our strikers the opportunities they need, especially with a fit Noonie marauding down the wing.

That surely must be the plan.

With apologies to "surelys'".
Click to expand...

This is exactly right - I've said it all along.

With mobile ball playing centre halves who can carry the ball forward, you can press a much higher line. It means that playmakers the likes of Whitts and Co, need not always retreat so far to pick up the ball.

Receiving the ball so far back means they've got far too much ground to cover before putting any pressure on opposition defences. The build up is slow and pedestrian to the extent that the opposition can organise themselves behind the ball giving the likes of Le Fondre no scope to exploit their runs.

In fact, the more I think about it, getting the centreback mix correct could have far greater positive implications than just making the defence more solid. With the adventure and pace down the flanks of Fabio/John and Brayford, let alone the much vaunted return of Noone, we could turn this turgid recent stuff around completely.

Ole still has to get the midfield combo right, by I'm sure the addition of Manga will allow Whitts/Daehli etc far more "licence to thrill" further forward than has been the case up till now.
 
As always some insightful posts here.
Manga is supposed to be a ball playing, pacey CB, the idea behind this buy must be to improve pace and ability on the ball in central defence which is vital as a link between defence and midfield. More pace will allow us to play higher upfield as a team. One of things that annoyed me so far was how reluctant we are to move as a unit upfield. Far too often attacking players find themselves isolated with no one to pass too.
 
whoops said:
The concensus on here is that our midfield is poor, our defence good and strikers OK. So what does the manager do? Buy another centre back when we don't need one, offload the club captain and presumably drop arguably our best player this season in Connoly. In fairness he must have recognised our midfield weakness so what does he do? Buy Pilkington who, admitedly on the flimsiest of evidence, is not the real deal or the type of player required.

This thread started off with the implication that Whitts is the reason our midfield has under performed. Daehli and others have not covered themselves in glory either but seems to attract praise in some quarters because he is young and has great potential. The problem in my view goes far deeper and starts with the manager who seems unable to agree on a settled side or formation and has bought players, including some bought last season, that are either not needed or are not that good.

We have plenty of good players - probably better than our Championship winning side - but that alone does not guarantee success and does not mean we as fans can't criticise them or the manager for poor performance.
Click to expand...
I do see where you are coming but on the criticism on Whitts we have to remember Whitts is 30 years old and one of the most experienced players in our side
Daehli on the other hand is a 19 year old that hasn't even played a full season at first team level yet.
Its not useful to talk about a 19 year old and 30 year old in the same manner, obviously they are in different stages of their careers and their development as players,mentally and physically and so different things are expected of them.
Granted is not just Whitts that needs to step up its other senior members of the squad too, they need to lead the way for the youngsters as in any successful team. Likewise Fabio and John have vastly different experiences which will shape them as players at this point in time. Fabio has played at a big club with a lot of pressure, champions league football and so on and so forth.
Do agree about Pilkington, i am not sure why he was bought when we have Burgtaller who looks a very similar type of player. I would have preferred someone with more pace.
 
whoops said:
The concensus on here is that our midfield is poor, our defence good and strikers OK. So what does the manager do? Buy another centre back when we don't need one, offload the club captain and presumably drop arguably our best player this season in Connoly. In fairness he must have recognised our midfield weakness so what does he do? Buy Pilkington who, admitedly on the flimsiest of evidence, is not the real deal or the type of player required.

This thread started off with the implication that Whitts is the reason our midfield has under performed. Daehli and others have not covered themselves in glory either but seems to attract praise in some quarters because he is young and has great potential. The problem in my view goes far deeper and starts with the manager who seems unable to agree on a settled side or formation and has bought players, including some bought last season, that are either not needed or are not that good.

We have plenty of good players - probably better than our Championship winning side - but that alone does not guarantee success and does not mean we as fans can't criticise them or the manager for poor performance.
Click to expand...

Anyway, back to the thread subject and your post whoops.

In the OP I said that Whitts cannot be played in a four man midfield in the present set up with two up top - I did not say that Whitts is being blamed for the failings of the team. It's just that he's a failing part of a failing system that Ole is pursuing that's cleary not working and needs to change.

Sacrificing one up top and putting an energetic agressive midfielder in there with him as a "minder" - a bit like Scimeca did for McPhail - could well work and allow Whitts to weave the skills that we know he possesses. Just who this "energetic aggressive midfielder" is I'm not sure, but Ralls wouldn't be a bad shout amongst what we've got.

Ole seems to be pursuing a crusade that some who embark on can never retreat. I just hope he has the humility to fit the system to the players we have, and not the other way around.
 
Oldsparkey said:
Anyway, back to the thread subject and your post whoops.

In the OP I said that Whitts cannot be played in a four man midfield in the present set up with two up top - I did not say that Whitts is being blamed for the failings of the team. It's just that he's a failing part of a failing system that Ole is pursuing that's cleary not working and needs to change.

Sacrificing one up top and putting an energetic agressive midfielder in there with him as a "minder" - a bit like Scimeca did for McPhail - could well work and allow Whitts to weave the skills that we know he possesses. Just who this "energetic aggressive midfielder" is I'm not sure, but Ralls wouldn't be a bad shout amongst what we've got.

Ole seems to be pursuing a crusade that some who embark on can never retreat. I just hope he has the humility to fit the system to the players we have, and not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I misunderstood your original post Sparkey. This is what you said:

Drop Whitts..............
"..........................if we're going to continue to play 4-4-2. He just doesn't cut it in a 4 man midfield.

No pace, is far too casual around the pitch and is living on past reputation. He can't just be selected for the occasional decent delivery from set plays and corner kicks - he was even poor at that yesterday. He's generally playing far too deep and we've others who are more suited to that role".

I took that to mean that Whitts should be dropped. Even though you qualified your comment to relate to a 4 man midfield I sensed your original post was blaming Whitts solely for our poor midfield performance. A couple of other posters seem to believe Whitts should be dropped and possibly gained the same impression as me.

That said let's see what happens next. These are certainly interesting times.
 
I know what I said whoops, and I did mean Whitts should be dropped. It was clearly qualified by stating if Ole continues with a 4 man midfield system.

He hasn't the pace, energy or drive to police the space left in the middle of the park by playing 2 up top and at least one out wide. Skills in abundance, but he needs the correct stage set out on which to perform. Someone has to take charge of midfield physically to allow him to win the game for us, and he's quite capable of doing that at any time.

I did go on to say later in the thread that the inclusion of a couple of centrebacks who are comfortable with the ball at their feet could help Whitts considerably. Bringing the ball to him rather than him having to cover so much ground to collect it all the time will lighten his load.

I just hope I'm able to say on here in a few weeks time that Ole was right all along.
 
Been saying this since last season..

As much as I have liked Whitts in the past, he is a shadow of the player he once was
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back