O/T Robin Williams RIP
- Thread starter Resurgam
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While I don't agree with what Brazil said in this case, he was only stating his opinion and we do live in a country where people gave their lives so we have freedom of speech! just because it goes against the grain doesn't make it any less valid so why should he be sacked?
And before I have the you don't know what you are talking about speech, My Auntie committed suicide by standing in front of a train and she suffered from depression and I and the rest of the family call her the most selfish bitch because of the hurt she caused to not only the family but the train driver, passengers and the police who had to witness an horrific scene. And these people have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
And before I have the you don't know what you are talking about speech, My Auntie committed suicide by standing in front of a train and she suffered from depression and I and the rest of the family call her the most selfish bitch because of the hurt she caused to not only the family but the train driver, passengers and the police who had to witness an horrific scene. And these people have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
Sorry Guru but you sound as if you're from the "You should pull yourself together" brigade which shows you know absolutely nothing about depression! It's every much an illness as is a brain tumour or a broken leg!
My missus had severe post natal depression after giving birth to our second daughter, I can tell you that it is DEFINITELY an illness. There were days when she would just cry and cry for no real reason and it put a real strain on our relationship. She openly admitted later when thankfully the depression passed that she considered ending it all, it really scared me hearing her say that because I had no idea she felt so bad. She was on anti-depressents for months but managed to ween herself off them, to be honest the only thing that she took that made her feel any better was herbal, St John's Wort !
No dave, We gave her all the help we could, Doctors, Therapy everything but in the end you can only do so much for some people. It is the ultimate selfish act, take my auntie for example, that driver has to live with the look on her face every hour of every day, he couldn't go back to work because of it. The same as Robin Williams personal assistant has to relive finding his body probably everyday, or his daughter with the thought that she wasn't enough for him to keep living.
Listen Robin Williams was a legend in his field and that won't get forgotton, but sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture.
I do believe we have only touched the tip of the iceberg in terms of investigating depression as an illness, I have seen the effects of it first hand and it really is a horrible illness not only for the person but the whole family.
Committing suicide is, if you remove all compassion or circumstance, undoubtedly a selfish act. It certainly has an impact on the lives of people you leave behind. My girlfriend's father committed suicide and it's taken her along time to recover from that loss (though obviously there is some doubt as to whether you can ever truly recover). Of course, this impact should be borne in mind.
However, when people are unwell they are not in their right mind. You can't measure the selfish act of a child against the selfish act of a normal adult. Likewise, you can't measure the actions of an ill person against someone who is not ill. Measuring selfishness is entirely relative to whether someone is compos mentis (or of sufficient maturity).
It's also worth bearing in mind that a lot of the time the problem for those who commit suicide is that they see their continuing existence as MORE of a problem for those they leave behind. Sounds like a distinctly unselfish act when you see it through their eyes.
However, when people are unwell they are not in their right mind. You can't measure the selfish act of a child against the selfish act of a normal adult. Likewise, you can't measure the actions of an ill person against someone who is not ill. Measuring selfishness is entirely relative to whether someone is compos mentis (or of sufficient maturity).
It's also worth bearing in mind that a lot of the time the problem for those who commit suicide is that they see their continuing existence as MORE of a problem for those they leave behind. Sounds like a distinctly unselfish act when you see it through their eyes.
Rob is right with everything he has said.
Perhaps selfish isn't the right descriptive term, I don't know, All I know is that everybody else is left to sort out everything, and feeling that you and other people feel you didn't do enough.
Perhaps selfish isn't the right descriptive term, I don't know, All I know is that everybody else is left to sort out everything, and feeling that you and other people feel you didn't do enough.
Obviously not, I was referring to this country AND research into treatments.
The amount spent on mental health care in this country is derisory despite MPs saying otherwise.
I've suffered my entire life with it you'll always get the pull yourself together brigade but there is a physical reason for it and that needs to be more readily acknowledged and dealt with
I do understand what you mean Guru, but as Rob rightly says, those suffering see their action as a release for their friends and family rather than a burden! I can also tell you I have seen it from the other side too! When I was a 17 year old Met. Police Cadet, stationed at Peckham, a man in his forties was allowed home for a weekend with his wife and family from Bexley Mental Hospital, he climbed on to a railway bridge and jumped in front of an express train! I and some young coppers in their twenties had to walk along the track putting bits of human detrius into plastic bags! I promise you, that stayed with me a very long time, but the poor man himself wasn't to blame, he couldn't help it! Mental health issues are a bastard to deal with!
In rational terms yes suicide is a selfish act but you're (generally) talking about people who have been or have backed themselves into a corner and for whatever reason their "escape" is suicide.
I've been there in my 20s I stuck a hosepipe up the car exhaust. I spent christ knows how many hours in a hyperbaric chamber, didn't know who I was, where I was, couldn't walk etc.
When I was released I saw a community psychiatric nurse ONCE. I begged for help, asked to be sectioned I got a packet of prozac and sleeping tablets to help with the pain.
It's on my mind every single day is this going to be the day the constant pain makes me snap. It's a nightmare to live with but it's there and probably always will be.
I feel sorry for anyone who reaches that point in their lives and I feel terrible for the remaining family and friends etc have to live with what happened. It's a situation with no winners.
I've been there in my 20s I stuck a hosepipe up the car exhaust. I spent christ knows how many hours in a hyperbaric chamber, didn't know who I was, where I was, couldn't walk etc.
When I was released I saw a community psychiatric nurse ONCE. I begged for help, asked to be sectioned I got a packet of prozac and sleeping tablets to help with the pain.
It's on my mind every single day is this going to be the day the constant pain makes me snap. It's a nightmare to live with but it's there and probably always will be.
I feel sorry for anyone who reaches that point in their lives and I feel terrible for the remaining family and friends etc have to live with what happened. It's a situation with no winners.
I suppose if there is a good thing to come out of this, at least it gets people talking about it and hopefully if it can just get 1 person suffering from depression to open up then that is a bonus.
My eldest Brother hung himself at the age of just 31, he was living alone, just lost his Job, his wife had run off with another man and he had taken to drink. One night he got into the loft and hung himself from the joist in the roof. Next morning I walked into the hall of his flat only to find him hanging there! I still relive that day even though it happened back in 1992. We as a family should have done more to support him but to say that this was a selfish act is just way out of order!
He was my brother who I loved but I couldnt help him.It's the wrong word I guess but maybe there isn't a right word for it.
Maybe an act of despair would be a better word, very few people kill themselves as a way of lashing out at people. When you're in that frame of mind all you really see is an end to all the pain & suffering.
I feel truly sorry for anyone in either position. Mental health is still sorry to say second fiddle to a visible illness.
At least we are all talking about it which is a very good thing.
Maybe an act of despair would be a better word, very few people kill themselves as a way of lashing out at people. When you're in that frame of mind all you really see is an end to all the pain & suffering.
I feel truly sorry for anyone in either position. Mental health is still sorry to say second fiddle to a visible illness.
At least we are all talking about it which is a very good thing.
My eldest Brother hung himself at the age of just 31, he was living alone, just lost his Job, his wife had run off with another man and he had taken to drink. One night he got into the loft and hung himself from the joist in the roof. Next morning I walked into the hall of his flat only to find him hanging there! I still relive that day even though it happened back in 1992. We as a family should have done more to support him but to say that this was a selfish act is just way out of order!
JWM I'm sorry to hear that.
Have you read my post properly? I see you've disliked it - was that an error? I'm pretty sure we're on the same page here if you read the whole of my post and yours.
I meant to 'Like' it but pushed the wrong button on my ipad!
Apologies for that mate!
I meant to 'Like' it but pushed the wrong button on my ipad!
Apologies for that mate!
Got it! No worries
It's annoying that you can't undo those - I've clicked the wrong button a number of times (I think on my ipad too)
Got it! No worries
It's annoying that you can't undo those - I've clicked the wrong button a number of times (I think on my ipad too)
I knew you kept making mistakes on my posts Rob, thanks for clearing it up. cheers.