Catch 22

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sb_73

sb_73

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
31,880
27,898
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Warwickshire
I enjoyed the last few games of last season, when we were finally watching a TEAM. It's imperative that we keep that spirit going into what will be a tough year in the Prem.

But I know that the TEAM may not be good enough as it is, and I'm kind of excited by the idea of new players coming in. But that risks the TEAM spirit, as we know only too well.

So I'm stuck. I want what we've got, but better. The only way is to do our business early, let Redknapp, Jordan, Bond (if he's not sulking somewhere) and WALLY DOWNES have a full pre season with 3-4 quality incomers and a couple of squad players and hope it works.

I'm anticipating another 'grind it out' season, but that's bearable if the spirit is good, and the crowd gets behind them. The big plus is that there are 13 sides in the Premiership which could be relegation contenders. We only have to stay above 3 of them.
 
You're not alone Stan. Practically every side that wins promotion have the same conflicting thoughts. Its all about striking the correct balance. Hopefully Redknapp can do it.

The one thing I'm worried about and I think we've mostly forgotten it since last season, is injuries. Last year we picked up on average about one injury every single game I reckon. If that's repeated this coming season then I think we could really struggle. Whatever the reason was, I hope they're thinking about it seriously at coaching and Board level and are trying to remedy it.

Fingers crossed it was just one of those seasons and it won't happen again for a long time. We need a fit squad for the PL.
 
I agree Stan and this is where I find myself in a bit of a quandary. Our last three seasons have lacked stability due to the high turnover of players. I once heard Robbie Savage mention that it takes a player, on average, six months to settle and really feel part of the team when they move. If you have one or two of these than that's not such a big deal, especially if one of them hits the ground running. However if you have seven or eight new players coming in every season like we've done, there is no collective spirit for them to become a part of. Team spirit is as important as talent if not more so. I think we now have that collective spirit and I think we should try to retain as much of the current squad as possible with up to three or four additions. Certainly until the January transfer window anyway and then take it from there when we see where we are.
 
Tony has already mentioned 4 or 5 new signings. It should be no more than that. It will be important therefore that we get those signings right.
 
Swords Hoopster. said:
You're not alone Stan. Practically every side that wins promotion have the same conflicting thoughts. Its all about striking the correct balance. Hopefully Redknapp can do it.

The one thing I'm worried about and I think we've mostly forgotten it since last season, is injuries. Last year we picked up on average about one injury every single game I reckon. If that's repeated this coming season then I think we could really struggle. Whatever the reason was, I hope they're thinking about it seriously at coaching and Board level and are trying to remedy it.

Fingers crossed it was just one of those seasons and it won't happen again for a long time. We need a fit squad for the PL.
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You're right Swordster on the injuries but many of these 'injurys' were entirely predictable.

Austin was signed knowing he had a long term issue, hence why Hull passed on him. This was a calculated risk / gamble that just paid off
AJ & OBZ are well past their prime and we all knew with the injuries they carry they wouldn't see out the season. Yes OBZ scored the £134m goal but otherwise I'm sure we could have done better elsewhere
Krancjar was signed injured. As was Dellatorre. Again gambles that arguably were not worth it.
Dunne picked up an injury through the sheer number of games he played.

Hoilett just seemed to pick a knock up every other game. Maybe he wasn't in top condition?

Faurlin was an unfortunate injury, as was Phillips. These things happen.

On balance many of our injury problems came from including ageing players with known injuries / conditions. It's hardly starting from the strongest vantage point is it?
 
There is no way to win this situation, the squad is not good enough to cope with only 5 signings and we don't really want to have another dozen signings.

If we go with 4 or 5, we will need another 4 or 5 in January.
I'd rather just get a dozen young players now and be done with it rather than settle in some now and in January which will mean we won't have a settles squad all season.
 
Flyer said:
There is no way to win this situation, the squad is not good enough to cope with only 5 signings and we don't really want to have another dozen signings.If we go with 4 or 5, we will need another 4 or 5 in January.
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Bloody marvelous, inne?

Why don't we just tell the PL there's no point in us competing next season because no matter what we do, we'll fail anyway? Of course you said that last year too yet here we are in the Premier League.

Could somebody just put this miserable kant out of his torment???
 
It's a tough situation -

Buy old proven (!) players we will be in an ongoing process and never become more settled, buy young unproven and only 1 out 3 may only be good enough. Until we know who is going and coming back it's just speculation but i guess thats what our job is :)
 
QPR68 said:
If we keep buying +30yr players the squad will keep rotating.
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That's what we will do, then have to face the same choice next summer. Of course Redknapp won't be here then so we may finally have a manager to build for the future and not just the next four months.
 
Vale_Hoops said:
It's a tough situation -

Buy old proven (!) players we will be in an ongoing process and never become more settled, buy young unproven and only 1 out 3 may only be good enough. Until we know who is going and coming back it's just speculation but i guess thats what our job is :)
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Old isn't proven, SWP, AJ, Zamora, O'Neil, Jenas, young, etc our success rate with old players is low anyway. Funnily enough our success rate with young players this season is 100%, Philips, Yun and Austin.

Give me a dozen players like that this season and just be done with the constant turnover.
 
Flyer said:
That's what we will do, then have to face the same choice next summer. Of course Redknapp won't be here then so we may finally have a manager to build for the future and not just the next four months.
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Didn't you say he wouldn't be here next season Flyer?
 
I don’t see us as having this issue- we played 49 league games last year and looked like a good team against Derby at home and Bournemouth at home and that’s about it in terms of a 90 mins performance. Ipswich away as an example we were good for about 25 mins of the second half but the first half of that game we were dreadful.

Did we look like a side good enough to worry teams in the Premiership at any point? I would say no. same question of Burnley and Leicester and you would say yes. So they have this problem (although Burnleys squad size is too small).

If you look at the striking position alone we need to sign 3 players. (Doyle could be one of these so half counts).

I think we need 8 players as a minimum and 4 of these at least as certain starters.

QPR68 said:
If we keep buying +30yr players the squad will keep rotating.
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But agree with this. If Harry gets his way and we predominantly sign Sidwells, Rio’s etc we will be faced with the same problem all over again next year. But of course harry doesn't care about that as it wont be his problem
 
Get over it Damage. You were wrong and you've yet to own up to it. We won promotion when you kept saying we wouldn't. What's more, we'll stay up next season despite yours and others constant negativity.

I suppose we could bring back Tarratubby and he'd tear up the league for us :emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
Swords Hoopster. said:
Get over it Damage. You were wrong and you've yet to own up to it. We won promotion when you kept saying we wouldn't. What's more, we'll stay up next season despite yours and others constant negativity.
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Bet you a grand that you cant find a quote of me saying we wouldn't get promoted

But i bet i can find you a quote where i said during our lowest point of the season (shortly after charlton away) that as bad as we were would get into the play offs and from there we could get away with it and get in to the play offs and have the best day for years and years.

I also bet i can find a quote from you were you agree that in a one off game we can get away with it. Which incidentally we did against Derby.

If you think the side we have now is good enough to keep us in the prem then you must be smoking something. If you dont then you agree with me so dont get our knickers in a twist
 
Flyer said:
Do you think he will get another contract?

For all we know, he might not be here at the start of this season.
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No, probably not but he has a year left on this one and there will no doubt be a significant staying up bonus involved. I would be very surprised if he is not given the opportunity to keep us up given we got promoted at the first ask.

This does present the dilemma you and Peter refer to in that the signings may not all be of the long-term variety but from the interviews I have heard with HR he is suggesting you need a mixture of youth and experience. I don't disagree with that.
 
We've got very little youth with suggests every new signing should be under 25 to get that balance.

I think at least half will be in their 30s though which will go against Redknapp own words.
 
sb_73 said:
I enjoyed the last few games of last season, when we were finally watching a TEAM. It's imperative that we keep that spirit going into what will be a tough year in the Prem.

But I know that the TEAM may not be good enough as it is, and I'm kind of excited by the idea of new players coming in. But that risks the TEAM spirit, as we know only too well.

So I'm stuck. I want what we've got, but better. The only way is to do our business early, let Redknapp, Jordan, Bond (if he's not sulking somewhere) and WALLY DOWNES have a full pre season with 3-4 quality incomers and a couple of squad players and hope it works.

I'm anticipating another 'grind it out' season, but that's bearable if the spirit is good, and the crowd gets behind them. The big plus is that there are 13 sides in the Premiership which could be relegation contenders. We only have to stay above 3 of them.
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Succinct and accurate. Stick or twist?

It is going to be fascinating to see how Harry does with a team that he has chosen (not exclusively) and with good backers who are prepared to spend sensible money.

I could do with a dose of low mid table obscurity though!
 
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