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goonercymraeg said:
I'm just arguing against your point about the cups being competitive.You being alive or not has no bearing on the matter.
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But how is a cup competitive if the team that wins it happens to be a laughing stock? Wigan didn't deserve the cup, if not for Martinez's heroics the year before, they would have been a championship side, with a more packed schedule, thus unlikely to be able to commit to the cup.
 
Han Shot First said:
Last year. Just like Birmingham devalued the league cup, i can't take a cup seriously if the team that wins it ends up getting relegated. I'm all for the underdog story, but it poses the question why could they win the cup, but not play well in the league?
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The cups are a good test of a teams top XI. The league a test of a squad's depth. I don't like the US playoff system, but in many ways it is a fairer test of which team is the best, rather than which team is the richest and can afford the deepest squad, or is the luckiest.

I don't think it is fair to say that the cups are not competitive, I just think it is just a different kind of competition.

I'm actually amazed by what I am reading and the whole tone of how it is being written. It seems almost surreally naïve to me. I increasingly think I'm being trolled on here, but I'm a bit afraid that cini and Han are absolutely serious.
 
Han Shot First said:
But how is a cup competitive if the team that wins it happens to be a laughing stock? Wigan didn't deserve the cup, if not for Martinez's heroics the year before, they would have been a championship side, with a more packed schedule, thus unlikely to be able to commit to the cup.
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Wigan deserved the cup because they won it.You're the one who said the cup isn't competitive anymore, I would argue that by your logic neither the FA Cup or League Cup have ever been competitive.
You must have missed my edit when I asked you how many times have Arsenal been champions
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
The cups are a good test of a teams top XI. The league a test of a squad's depth. I don't like the US playoff system, but in many ways it is a fairer test of which team is the best, rather than which team is the richest and can afford the deepest squad, or is the luckiest.

I don't think it is fair to say that the cups are not competitive, I just think it is just a different kind of competition.

I'm actually amazed by what I am reading and the whole tone of how it is being written. It seems almost surreally naïve to me. I increasingly think I'm being trolled on here, but I'm a bit afraid that cini and Han are absolutely serious.
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Says the guy who believes ManUre are in a worse place now than they were when Fergie took over.

Only one troll here mate, and it sure as hell isn't me, and i highly doubt it's Cini.
 
goonercymraeg said:
Wigan deserved the cup because they won it.You're the one who said the cup isn't competitive anymore, I would argue that by your logic neither the FA Cup or League Cup have ever been competitive.
You must have missed my edit when I asked you how many times have Arsenal been champions
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I missed your edit, and for the record, we've won it 10 times, win it this year and we're level with United.
 
Han Shot First said:
Says the guy who believes ManUre are in a worse place now than they were when Fergie took over.

Only one troll here mate, and it sure as hell isn't me, and i highly doubt it's Cini.
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Don't forget... Rooney and Mata aren't good enough for Arsenal either...
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
The cups are a good test of a teams top XI. The league a test of a squad's depth. I don't like the US playoff system, but in many ways it is a fairer test of which team is the best, rather than which team is the richest and can afford the deepest squad, or is the luckiest.

I don't think it is fair to say that the cups are not competitive, I just think it is just a different kind of competition.

I'm actually amazed by what I am reading and the whole tone of how it is being written. It seems almost surreally naïve to me. I increasingly think I'm being trolled on here, but I'm a bit afraid that cini and Han are absolutely serious.
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The cups certainly aren't a test of a teams top 11,if they were you would never have giant killings.
Personally I'd never say the playoff system in North American sports is fairer but that's just my opinion
 
goonercymraeg said:
The cups certainly aren't a test of a teams top 11,if they were you would never have giant killings.
Personally I'd never say the playoff system in North American sports is fairer but that's just my opinion
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As someone who follows the NFL and NBA, my issue with the playoff system is that you have teams losing on purpose to get an easier 1st round playoff draw. Imagine if the PL had it, if we won the final game of the season, we'd draw Citeh away, but if we lost, we'd get Everton at home. It makes no sense to win that final game, and that's the issue with playoffs, the system is flawed.
 
Han Shot First said:
As someone who follows the NFL and NBA, my issue with the playoff system is that you have teams losing on purpose to get an easier 1st round playoff draw. Imagine if the PL had it, if we won the final game of the season, we'd draw Citeh away, but if we lost, we'd get Everton at home. It makes no sense to win that final game, and that's the issue with playoffs, the system is flawed.
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My argument with playoffs is the best team may not become champions
 
Han Shot First said:
Says the guy who believes ManUre are in a worse place now than they were when Fergie took over.

Only one troll here mate, and it sure as hell isn't me, and i highly doubt it's Cini.
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I'm not sure they are better now or worse now, its a bit of a toss up, but isn't that pretty bad?

It does seem odd to me that you do see short term building as necessary and are prepared to give a new manger a year or two to build a team, although you don't seem to have any idea how he will obtain the players to do this in such a short time-span, when he will be easily outspent by any of a dozen of super-rich clubs, if he did try to obtain any "ready-made" player.

Yet you don't seem to understand, or put any value, in long term building to provide a manager with the financial clout to buy these players.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
I'm not sure they are better now or worse now, its a bit of a toss up, but isn't that pretty bad?

It does seem odd to me that you do see short term building as necessary and are prepared to give a new manger a year or two to build a team, although you don't seem to have any idea how he will obtain the players to do this in such a short time-span, when he will be easily outspent by any of a dozen of super-rich clubs, if he did try to obtain any "ready-made" player.

Yet you don't seem to understand, or put any value, in long term building to provide a manager with the financial clout to buy these players.
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We have money. We're Arsenal, players want to play for us. That's the thing with you Wenger loyalists, you big up the manager to such an extent that you're actually insulting the club, by effectively claiming that we can't sign top stars. Umm, ever heard of a chap named Mesut Ozil, he's kind of a big deal...
 
Im sure people will , if future think that Wenger was a bigger success than Bacon face , why on earth wouldnt they ?


Ferguson is the most successful manager in British football history, winning 40 trophies – including 13 Premier League titles – during his time in charge .

Wenger ,: 11 major trophies. (including Charity/Community Shields) .
 
goonercymraeg said:
My argument with playoffs is the best team may not become champions
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I agree with you, but better is a subjective term.

I mean the argument would be that the team that plays "better" in the play-offs wins. What I think all elimination rounds do is increase the chance of an upset and diminish the ability of money to buy a result. Whether that is good or bad, probably depends on how much money you have.

Liverpool are doing great this year on their reduced schedule and all power to them, but I do think Wenger's critics are again playing both sides of the argument here. He has concentrated on the league before now and sent kids out in the cups. This year after taking a lot of abuse over that policy, he has sent out strong teams in all competitions and possibly as a result the squad had broken down. Now victory in the FA cup, we are told, is unimportant, and it was all for nothing.

I keep getting told that I don't know anything, but right now, I can't even anticipate what I'm supposed to think.
 
Han Shot First said:
We have money. We're Arsenal, players want to play for us. That's the thing with you Wenger loyalists, you big up the manager to such an extent that you're actually insulting the club, by effectively claiming that we can't sign top stars. Umm, ever heard of a chap named Mesut Ozil, he's kind of a big deal...
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Using ozil as your example might not have been the best choice given he said wenger phoned him and spoke to him in German and that conversation played a huge part in him joining arsenal. I'd say ozil is the most recent example of wenger showing he can attract top players.

I'm not insinuating the club would be unable to attract players without wenger, but in certain cases he obviously does make a difference.
 
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