Official Not606 Chinese GP Chat and Predicktions

[allsaintchris.]

A none pro-Hamilton post on Sky, a rarity haha: Think we need a driver like Schumi that can out perform the car and take the fight to Mercedes, just like the 98,99,00 seasons.

The gap between the McLaren and the Ferrari was no where as big as it is now between the Mercedes and everyone. Irvine took the fight to McLaren in 99, shows how good that Ferrari was!

The closest I can think of to this season (so far) is 1988, when no one got close at all to the McLaren all season. Anyone who dared get ahead was swiftly dispatched at Prost and Senna's will when they chose too.


Monaco may be the one to watch this year when the power deficit isn't so important. Probably RBR and Ferrari's big chance to get ahead of the Mercs.

 

[Big Ern]

The gap between the McLaren and the Ferrari was no where as big as it is now between the Mercedes and everyone. Irvine took the fight to McLaren in 99, shows how good that Ferrari was!

The closest I can think of to this season (so far) is 1988, when no one got close at all to the McLaren all season. Anyone who dared get ahead was swiftly dispatched at Prost and Senna's will when they chose too.


Monaco may be the one to watch this year when the power deficit isn't so important. Probably RBR and Ferrari's big chance to get ahead of the Mercs.

Or the FW14B of 92? That started off. 2 seconds faster than Senna and failed to get pole once.
Rosberg is good around Monaco, I suspect he'll get pole.

 

[di Fredsta!]

The gap between the McLaren and the Ferrari was no where as big as it is now between the Mercedes and everyone. Irvine took the fight to McLaren in 99, shows how good that Ferrari was!

The closest I can think of to this season (so far) is 1988, when no one got close at all to the McLaren all season. Anyone who dared get ahead was swiftly dispatched at Prost and Senna's will when they chose too.


Monaco may be the one to watch this year when the power deficit isn't so important. Probably RBR and Ferrari's big chance to get ahead of the Mercs.

1988 was a year when undoubtedly the best two drivers had the best car, this year it's more like 2 from the top 5 on the grid have the best car but are still seconds a lap faster and even Chilton and Ericsson together would be leading the WCC.

Rosberg has proved he's good at Monaco and he knows how to win there, and I still think Mercedes are best at mechanical grip, it's just high speed aero where they're lacking slightly to Red Bull, everywhere else they're the best.

 

[allsaintchris.]

Or the FW14B of 92? That started off. 2 seconds faster than Senna and failed to get pole once.
Rosberg is good around Monaco, I suspect he'll get pole.

That's also a good example of a car that was eventually caught by the end of the season as it was a development of the 91 car so had reached its potential. Has Mercedes got more potential in their car, or will it do a Brawn and get caught as the others work out what's gone on and Merc have no response? Can't see it being overtaken as badly as the Brawn was, but do hope the others can do something otherwise it will be a dull season, even if Rosberg can get his act together and challenge Hamilton more often.

 

[dhel]

The EBD was designed so drivers had to use oversteer so the car (had) to be unstable or loose in the first place which Vettel mastered more than any driver on the grid as it was entirely out of their comfort zone. Vettels speed was because he could preserve his tyres better with this new EBD style of driving and the rest were unable to match him not because his Newey car was miles ahead of anything else.

McLaren actually designed a better EBD than Red Bull in the early stages of 2011 and their rear all season was just as planted as the Red Bull, Vettel was just doing miles better than Lewis and Jenson all year and Webber was nowhere. McLaren were hot blowing the diffuser with fuel rather than cold blowing like Red Bull were with the engine mappings, with pumping out air because the Renault engine had these butterfly flaps for reliability and the Mercedes engine didn't, so Mercedes had to go down a different route. Horner highlighted as well that hot blowing was in fact better than cold blowing during the mid season point until they were able to do it as well.

Also the drivability of these new cars are entirely controlled by the software, same with the brake by wire and that the drivers are more dependent on their engineers getting it right for them. Mercedes as well as having a power advantage also have the advantage of engine mappings and torque control in advance for each drivers because of the vast testing they did.

Let's be honest Mercedes are in a whole different zone with the preparation for their drivers as compared with Red Bull who are still coming at the end of testing with the miles they have done. As also reported in Germany the Renault engine mapping is vastly more aggressive in response as they're trying to keep up with Mercedes which can heavily punish any driver if the software doesn't suit the driver. The closer the Renault power unit gets to the Mercedes, the less aggressive the response and more refined like the Mercedes it will become.

I think you keep forgetting the part where Whitmarsh and the other idiots at Mclaren kept mucking up pit stops and gearbox and everything with Hamilton in his last year there...had not for all that crap who knows who would have won the championship...

 

[dhel]

Yeah... I thought it was out.

Maybe it was going and coming but I am sure it was open when he was chasing because I remember hearing the commentator saying he had it wide open...the thing is he takes too long to pass when following slower cars...he needs to be incisive and put this aside quickly. This isn't the first time I saw that happen... He is a very good driver and he showed it before but he needs to make up his mind early to take the car in front before his tyres start to go.

 

[51LV3R8RR04]

I think you keep forgetting the part where Whitmarsh and the other idiots at Mclaren kept mucking up pit stops and gearbox and everything with Hamilton in his last year there...had not for all that crap who knows who would have won the championship...

No doubt Lewis should of been leading the title in 2012, but not 2011.

 

[JonnyBaws]

No doubt Lewis should of been leading the title in 2013, but not 2011.

2012?
Agree, no one was getting near Vettel/RBR7 in 2011

 

[51LV3R8RR04]

2012?
Agree, no one was getting near Vettel/RBR7 in 2011

Sorry that's what I meant 2012. Long day etc.

 

[dhel]

And Mclaren seemed to be trying every which way to lose the title for Hamilton. And Jenson thought he had achieved this big coup going there.... Mclaren is a mess...I don't know what Dennis will do but all the many part they bring to the races seem to send them back a few seconds even though they have a great engine.

 

[dhel]

So... What do we put Vettel's major malfunction down to? I was convinced he'd sacrificed qualifying position to setup for the race, and for a while he looked pretty good... I'm amazed how much he faded away.

All drivers go through rough periods, and Vettel is no exception it seems... Though it looked like he would never stumble over the last four years.

This has gotta be rough on him after so much success. He's going to need to dig deep (pardon the cliche) to get back to his best with Ricciardo putting him under pressure.

Vettel's problem right now is that he doesn't seem to be able to handle the new car under the new regulations. He seems to be the type that like the car a certain way or he will start to struggle. Remember when Pirelli changed the belting on the tyres how he ran away with all the other races after that? He was able to get hear into his tyres quickly and he flew off the line. Right now even though Red Bull is said to have the best aero package (which I doubt to be the case) you can see Vettel struggling in corners where Red Bull is supposed to be very strong. And Ricciardo is showing that the car is strong in those corners. As a four times champion (consecutive) Vettel needs to get over this quickly. I would say by mid season. If he can't handle the car by then and continues to be beaten badly by his new teammate then I would have to seriously question his status. Hamilton walked into a new team and did well in his first year even though he was having brake issues.. He still drove well and beat his team mate who was at mercedes long before him and this year so far we can see that he has the momentum.. I don't see why Vettel shouldn't be able to handle the car by mid season. Ok we all see that it doesn't have the straight line speed of the mercedes but his team mate is thumping him...he needs to deal with that quickly or people will question his true ability. As Sgt said recently Vettel is a four time world champion... And that says a lot for him, but now he must prove his ability when things are not going for him. He simply cannot let Ricciardo beat him this season. I mean Ricciardo beat him by about 17 seconds?

 

[BamalamaFizzVaj]

Vettel's problem right now is that he doesn't seem to be able to handle the new car under the new regulations. He seems to be the type that like the car a certain way or he will start to struggle. Remember when Pirelli changed the belting on the tyres how he ran away with all the other races after that? He was able to get hear into his tyres quickly and he flew off the line. Right now even though Red Bull is said to have the best aero package (which I doubt to be the case) you can see Vettel struggling in corners where Red Bull is supposed to be very strong. And Ricciardo is showing that the car is strong in those corners. As a four times champion (consecutive) Vettel needs to get over this quickly. I would say by mid season. If he can't handle the car by then and continues to be beaten badly by his new teammate then I would have to seriously question his status. Hamilton walked into a new team and did well in his first year even though he was having brake issues.. He still drove well and beat his team mate who was at mercedes long before him and this year so far we can see that he has the momentum.. I don't see why Vettel shouldn't be able to handle the car by mid season. Ok we all see that it doesn't have the straight line speed of the mercedes but his team mate is thumping him...he needs to deal with that quickly or people will question his true ability. As Sgt said recently Vettel is a four time world champion... And that says a lot for him, but now he must prove his ability when things are not going for him. He simply cannot let Ricciardo beat him this season. I mean Ricciardo beat him by about 17 seconds?

Never??! i like how people immediately jump to Ricciardo beating Vettel meaning he's not as good as was previously considered, where as it was the exact opposite when Rosberg briefly had the better of Hamilton last year and was immediately elevated to god-like status

 

[ErnieBecclestone]

He should have really made chopped liver of Hamilton in Bahrain...

Should have but, we are missing the point that Hamilton is best there is, he's gonna take some catching, probably not possible given the competition.

 

[ErnieBecclestone]

Never??! i like how people immediately jump to Ricciardo beating Vettel meaning he's not as good as was previously considered, where as it was the exact opposite when Rosberg briefly had the better of Hamilton last year and was immediately elevated to god-like status

I think Vettel is grossly over-rated, a monkey could have won the WDC with the Red Bull car over the last few years.

 

[Big Ern]

Should have but, we are missing the point that Hamilton is best there is, he's gonna take some catching, probably not possible given the competition.

If he was the 'best there is' he would've won more than the one WDC he was gifted with the cars he's been given, instead of crashing them nearly every week as he did in 2011.

I think Vettel is grossly over-rated, a monkey could have won the WDC with the Red Bull car over the last few years.

funny, because most peopel agree that the 2012 McLaren was better than the 2012 RBR, so why couldn't the 'greatest driver there is' in the best car on the grid fail to beat a grossly over-rated monkey? answers on a post-card to 'Hamelot competition'

 

[beeforsalmon]

One observation that's hit me several times this year is how easy it is to powerslide these cars. We've seen Rosberg and Ricciardo both having pretty extravagant moments with their cars almost sideways. Forgive my lack of technical language in this comparison but to me they seem almost 'kart-like' in their behaviour when their on the limit. Once that huge amount of torque kicks in you can loose traction very quick. I think this style of car where you're on the edge just plays right into Lewis' natural driving abilities with his karting background playing to the driving style needed. Forgive my rather coarse explanation but I hope you get my 'drift'

 

[dhel]

Never??! i like how people immediately jump to Ricciardo beating Vettel meaning he's not as good as was previously considered, where as it was the exact opposite when Rosberg briefly had the better of Hamilton last year and was immediately elevated to god-like status

that was totally different..hamilon had just come to a new team..vettel is at the team he was at all along...ricciardo justcame to Red Bull. if you read what I said carefully you would read that i am saying Vettel needs to get his act togeher and have some undersanding of this car by mid season or else people would quesion his ability..especially if the new guy is whppingnhis ass..undersstand that now?

 

[Justjazz]

And Mclaren seemed to be trying every which way to lose the title for Hamilton. And Jenson thought he had achieved this big coup going there.... Mclaren is a mess...I don't know what Dennis will do but all the many part they bring to the races seem to send them back a few seconds even though they have a great engine.

Totally agree McLaren are in a mess. I doubt this is Whitmarsh legacy entirely, although I suspect he has been the cause of some of it, he always struck me as too nice. I think the McLaren culture is wrong, they think they are a great team when in fact they are living off past glories, and i don't mean Lewis's last title. You can only hope Honda will switch this around for them but I am doubtful. I remember a comment that Honda, being Japenese, had to do everything by committee and consequently everything was mediocre. And Ron? He has not proved himself of late. Eric needs to bring change to the culture.

Even Jenson sounded fed up in the after race interview. He more or less said it is no fun driving this heap of s***.

Sorry McLaren, you are not the great team you think you are, it has been a long time since you had glory years, you need to get back to basics. Great teams have individual players who are the best at what they do, be it driving, motivating, designing. I don't see McLaren have any of the best in these departments. And they need to be careful with Honda, its culture has historically not been great either.

 

[di Fredsta!]

Should have but, we are missing the point that Hamilton is best there is, he's gonna take some catching, probably not possible given the competition.

I forgot that 2011 didn't exist. To say that's the best ever is completely ******ed. He's choked out of being a 4 time WDC. He's massively underachieved.

 

[Julius Caesar]

If he was the 'best there is' he would've won more than the one WDC he was gifted with the cars he's been given, instead of crashing them nearly every week as he did in 2011.

funny, because most peopel agree that the 2012 McLaren was better than the 2012 RBR, so why couldn't the 'greatest driver there is' in the best car on the grid fail to beat a grossly over-rated monkey? answers on a post-card to 'Hamelot competition'

Agree that there's no way Hamilton can be categorically called "the best there is". He's never managed to put clear daylight between himself & Button or Rosberg and people think he would if paired with Vettel or Alonso? At best he's roughly equal to them.

On 2012 though i would say that "best car" and "best team" are not synonymous. McLaren's race operations were a clusterfuck that year (and it's only worsened since they've now forgotten how to make a quick car)