Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms

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NowsufferinginSpain said:
Reading Boss' post, who I assume is also Scottish, or of Scottish descent, it seems that opinion is very divided on this subject. Whatever you want to call him, Salmond is the "face" of the independence bid, therefore public perception of him is very important. If he is perceived to be trustworthy. Whether the Scottish public has faith in his vision of the future, etc. These things will all be in the mind of Mr. Scottish Joe Public when he comes to make a decision.
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He is the first minister he received an overwhelming mandate from the Scottish people. The focus on him is the usual tactics employed by the media to try and discredit him. Bear in mind that the whole of the media is pro - union. You'd expect bias from papers like the Mail but perhaps you might not from the Guardian or the BBC it's there. BBC Scotland is dominated by Westminster Labour there is a campaign to not pay licences because of this blatant bias.

The University of the West of Scotland has produced a report on this bias which has hardly seen the light of day. The Financial Times produced a report showing how all Scots would be better off from day 1 of independence. There is an oil field in the Scotland's Atlantic waters at least as big as the North Sea one, I bet you have not heard about it.

All the details of policies with an independent Scotland are irrelevant because these will be decided when an independent Scotland chooses its government.

Make no mistake most people in the South and many in Scotland itself have not heard the true picture yet. When they do, the case for staying in the Union is non existant. For the good of all the countries of the UK we must hope that this message does get out.
 
Spurf said:
First the YES campaign is NOT the SNP it includes people from all parties in Scotland, Labour, Liberal, Tories, Greens, Socialists plus the Scottish TUC and many prominent business men.

Current UK?
The 4th most unequal country in the world,
Amongst the lowest pensions and wages in Europe,
The highest rates in many areas of illness/ suicide.
The most regressive employment laws.
All this in one of the richest countries in the world.
Why?
Because we have one of the least democratic forms of government amongst modern democratic countries.
We have a situation where 70% of the land is owned by 3% of the people. Most of these people are in power and have been for 1000 years.

Scotland has the chance to break away and form a much fairer and more prosperous society it's also a chance to show England how it could be.

Alec Salmond is the standard bearer for independence, he is not the reason.
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So will the scots get their own passports? If they do and Scotland doesn't get into the EEC immediately we could charge them £870 a year for a visa the same as we do for Africans etc. We could also deport them if they were late in paying or fine them silly money. In any case we could charge them full wack if they wanted to attend an English University. We could deport them if they lost their jobs, which would save money on social security and insist that if they are working in England they pay tax in England. All roads into England could have tolls and we could close all of the Naval Dockyards in Scotland and move the jobs to England. They could fund their own Social Security and Health Service and fund their own prisons, public transport and legal system. Sounds a pretty good deal to me but best of all, we could refuse Charlie Adam a work permit.
 
Spurf said:
He is the first minister he received an overwhelming mandate from the Scottish people. The focus on him is the usual tactics employed by the media to try and discredit him. Bear in mind that the whole of the media is pro - union. You'd expect bias from papers like the Mail but perhaps you might not from the Guardian or the BBC it's there. BBC Scotland is dominated by Westminster Labour there is a campaign to not pay licences because of this blatant bias.

The University of the West of Scotland has produced a report on this bias which has hardly seen the light of day. The Financial Times produced a report showing how all Scots would be better off from day 1 of independence. There is an oil field in the Scotland's Atlantic waters at least as big as the North Sea one, I bet you have not heard about it.

All the details of policies with an independent Scotland are irrelevant because these will be decided when an independent Scotland chooses its government.

Make no mistake most people in the South and many in Scotland itself have not heard the true picture yet. When they do, the case for staying in the Union is non existant. For the good of all the countries of the UK we must hope that this message does get out.
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You're clearly far more informed on the subject than I am. As I'm not Scottish, I don't live in the U.K. Anymore, etc. I have not concerned myself with the arguments for or against in any depth.

I think the point is that Salmond, rightly or wrongly, is the public face of the independence bid. There are many, many Scottish citizens who are nowhere near as informed on the subject. What they will see, what they will follow, trust or not, is Salmond and his chief acolytes. Therefore, I think the point I made is more than valid. Salmond, and the Scottish public's perception of whether he is credible, or not, will be crucial to the outcome.
 
deedub93 said:
So will the scots get their own passports? If they do and Scotland doesn't get into the EEC immediately we could charge them £870 a year for a visa the same as we do for Africans etc. We could also deport them if they were late in paying or fine them silly money. In any case we could charge them full wack if they wanted to attend an English University. We could deport them if they lost their jobs, which would save money on social security and insist that if they are working in England they pay tax in England. All roads into England could have tolls and we could close all of the Naval Dockyards in Scotland and move the jobs to England. They could fund their own Social Security and Health Service and fund their own prisons, public transport and legal system. Sounds a pretty good deal to me but best of all, we could refuse Charlie Adam a work permit.
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Yeah yeah, LOL How do you think these things are funded now? Scotland already receives 2 billion back in finance LESS than it raises by tax. So contrary to popular rumour Scotland subsidises England by 2 billion at least and that is without the VAT that finds its way to Westminster from Scottish companys.

Fortunately deedub the reality will be one of mutual coperation as with Ireland simply because it is in everyones interest to do so.

BTW Scotland will need its shipyards to build its own navy. At present there are NO naval ships patrolling the Scottish coast at all. A coastline longer than Englands; ships will be needed for this as will the present nuclear base for this non nuclear coastal navy.
 
Spurf said:
Yeah yeah, LOL How do you think these things are funded now? Scotland already receives 2 billion back in finance LESS than it raises by tax. So contrary to popular rumour Scotland subsidises England by 2 billion at least and that is without the VAT that finds its way to Westminster from Scottish companys.

Fortunately deedub the reality will be one of mutual coperation as with Ireland simply because it is in everyones interest to do so.

BTW Scotland will need its shipyards to build its own navy. At present there are NO naval ships patrolling the Scottish coast at all. A coastline longer than Englands; ships will be needed for this as will the present nuclear base for this non nuclear coastal navy.
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OK, but at least we could refuse Charlie Adam a work permit.
 
Spurf said:
Boss it's not to do with the SNP, elections would follow an independence vote. The future of Scotland would then be decided by the voters of Scotland which is the whole point of the exercise.

There is also no reason to expect that Scotland would be treated any different from the way it has been in the past. Glasgow has areas where life expectancy is around 52 that is less than the Gazza Strip. There is much for the City Council mafia to be ashamed of and little hope when they are propped up by Westminster.

Tell me what you think is exaggerated.
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I get that, just they are playing an important part as they are the figureheads. Most people I've spoke to mention their views on the SNP & Salmond and aren't discussing their reasons for independence.

You clearly understand why you want to vote yes, just the general person as shown by polls, interviews, question time and etc, don't have enough facts to vote for the right reasons. and are going to be swayed by their views on the SNP/Salmond as if they trust Salmond they will vote yes, if they don't trust his views then they will either vote no or remain undecided.

If more facts where available then the views on SNP/Salmond wouldn't be of such importance.

.........
SUPPORT for a Yes vote in the independence referendum has increased, but more than half of Scots still want to remain part of the UK, the latest opinion poll suggests.

The latest research by YouGov found 37% of people questioned said they support independence, up two points from last month, with 52% planning to vote No, down by one point.

One in 10 people were undecided about how to vote on September 18, while 1% said they would not be voting, according to the poll for The Times.
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http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...dependence-yes-at-37-in-yougov-poll-1-3353921

Not looking good for you Spurf!

But as for what is exaggerated, from oil revenues, the future of the economy, jobs etc, from reading what has been presented by the SNP & Salmond, it mostly appears to be overly optimistic and exaggerated, although I shouldn't really have mentioned the Yes Campaign as you have your own people from various parties and I know you have a passion for helping Scotland flourish but remember Alex Ferguson has backed the better (thats better not bitter)..together LOL, although after backing Moyes I'm not sure i should use him as someone to add weight to my views!!
 
Boss said:
I get that, just they are playing an important part as they are the figureheads. Most people I've spoke to mention their views on the SNP & Salmond and aren't discussing their reasons for independence.

You clearly understand why you want to vote yes, just the general person as shown by polls, interviews, question time and etc, don't have enough facts to vote for the right reasons. and are going to be swayed by their views on the SNP/Salmond as if they trust Salmond they will vote yes, if they don't trust his views then they will either vote no or remain undecided.

If more facts where available then the views on SNP/Salmond wouldn't be of such importance.

.........

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...dependence-yes-at-37-in-yougov-poll-1-3353921

Not looking good for you Spurf!

But as for what is exaggerated, from oil revenues, the future of the economy, jobs etc, from reading what has been presented by the SNP & Salmond, it mostly appears to be overly optimistic and exaggerated, although I shouldn't really have mentioned the Yes Campaign as you have your own people from various parties and I know you have a passion for helping Scotland flourish but remember Alex Ferguson has backed the better (thats better not bitter)..together LOL, although after backing Moyes I'm not sure i should use him as someone to add weight to my views!!
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Alex Ferguson? you do realise that the former Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament is a man called Alex Ferguson who is a Tory and has never managed a PL football team.

Oil revenues are very much under estimated by the SNP just speak to somebody in the industry and ask them about the Atlantic fields.

The future is crystal ball gazing but the figures and facts are available in the Westminster governments records or the EU records. All of the figures I have seen suggest that Scotland will be very much better off as an Independent nation. This is not really disputed by anyone who looks at the figures, check out the article in the Financial Times that I mentioned earlier.
 
Spurf said:
Alex Ferguson? you do realise that the former Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament is a man called Alex Ferguson who is a Tory and has never managed a PL football team.

Oil revenues are very much under estimated by the SNP just speak to somebody in the industry and ask them about the Atlantic fields.

The future is crystal ball gazing but the figures and facts are available in the Westminster governments records or the EU records. All of the figures I have seen suggest that Scotland will be very much better off as an Independent nation. This is not really disputed by anyone who looks at the figures, check out the article in the Financial Times that I mentioned earlier.
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Come on Spurf, switch sides!
 
"Glasgow has areas where life expectancy is around 52 that is less than the Gazza Strip"

I think you mean Gaza Strip, Spurf. Unfortunately, I think Gazza's life expectancy may be even shorter!...
 
If Scotland get Independence,will they do a Putin and invade Berwick.Don't they think they are Scottish even though Berwick is in England.
Rotten football team though,so they may no longer want it!!!!!!!
 
bigsmithy9 said:
If Scotland get Independence,will they do a Putin and invade Berwick.Don't they think they are Scottish even though Berwick is in England.
Rotten football team though,so they may no longer want it!!!!!!!
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Not just Berwick smithy, Northumberland, Durham, Yorkshire. <ok>
 
Spurf said:
Not just Berwick smithy, Northumberland, Durham, Yorkshire. <ok>
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Does this mean that those in the South can expect the inhabitants of northern parts to all pack granny and the kids into the Fiesta and head down there, as hoards of befrocked, screaming, sword waving ginger people descend upon their lands?
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Does this mean that those in the South can expect the inhabitants of northern parts to all pack granny and the kids into the Fiesta and head down there, as hoards of befrocked, screaming, sword waving ginger people descend upon their lands?
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More like granny and the kids heading north for better health care and education. <ok>
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Does this mean that those in the South can expect the inhabitants of northern parts to all pack granny and the kids into the Fiesta and head down there, as hoards of befrocked, screaming, sword waving ginger people descend upon their lands?
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With any luck they'll all move in with their relatives in the Tory safe seats, obliterating the majority they have in places like Tunbridge Wells and *grits teeth* Croydon South.
 
Croydon.Now that takes me back!My old gran would shop there after running away on many occasions to stay with friends in Wallington after grandad came home after one of his pub benders.
Mum would take me down on the old Northern Line to Tooting Broadway and catch a bus that used to hide in a side turning opposite the tube station.I use to love that trip! "Do it again grandad!!!!!!"

I know....this has nothing to do with Spurs either,but,what the hell??????
 
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