Triple punishment

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fran-MLs little camera

fran-MLs little camera

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2011
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The footballing authorities are discussing amongst other things whether a player should be sent off for dangerous play when a penalty has also been awarded....especially when it is a goalkeeper. The triple punishment being the penalty, playing with 10 men and then losing the player for subsequent games. The thing that many people assume is that the penalty is scored. If the GK stops a strong goalscoring opportunity, isn't sent off and then the penalty is missed, there would appear to be no punishment.
 
But you're also making the assumption that the goal scoring opportunity would be scored. If it's the goalkeeper that makes the foul then you're looking at an empty net so the chances are probably better than a penalty but it's never a guarantee.
If it's an honest attempt to win the ball then I believe it should be a yellow card
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
The footballing authorities are discussing amongst other things whether a player should be sent off for dangerous play when a penalty has also been awarded....especially when it is a goalkeeper. The triple punishment being the penalty, playing with 10 men and then losing the player for subsequent games. The thing that many people assume is that the penalty is scored. If the GK stops a strong goalscoring opportunity, isn't sent off and then the penalty is missed, there would appear to be no punishment.
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Dangerous play? Don't you mean denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. My view is that if a penalty is awarded there is no denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity and therefore a yellow card is sufficient. If it was outside the box, a red card. Not the referee's fault if the penalty is missed.
 
tomw19 said:
Dangerous play? Don't you mean denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. My view is that if a penalty is awarded there is no denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity and therefore a yellow card is sufficient. If it was outside the box, a red card. Not the referee's fault if the penalty is missed.
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Only mentioned dangerous play because that was what was being discussed on Sky. However, if a keeper brings down a player because he can't stop the goal that is surely preventing a goal scoring opportunity...therefore a red card.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Only mentioned dangerous play because that was what was being discussed on Sky. However, if a keeper brings down a player because he can't stop the goal that is surely preventing a goal scoring opportunity...therefore a red card.
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Clueless idiots (on Sky). There is no such thing as a red card for dangerous play. Serious Foul Play is a red card but that's nothing to do with what was being discussed on Sky.
 
I don't think I completely agree with Tiss but if someone comes up with a sensible idea then I'm all for it. One idea that I just made up out of my head is distinguishing between denying a goalscoring opportunity (pen + yellow) and denying an obvious goal (pen + red). The reason I don't like just making it a yellow every time is it rewards handballs on the line etc by giving the GK an extra chance to save.
 
Qwerty said:
I don't think I completely agree with Tiss but if someone comes up with a sensible idea then I'm all for it. One idea that I just made up out of my head is distinguishing between denying a goalscoring opportunity (pen + yellow) and denying an obvious goal (pen + red). The reason I don't like just making it a yellow every time is it rewards handballs on the line etc by giving the GK an extra chance to save.
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Ah but there are 2 different rules:

1. denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

2. denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

They are listed as 2 different sending off offences. So they could amend the latter one. Deliberate handball has to be a red card every time because the player is deliberately denying a goal.
 
Qwerty said:
I don't think I completely agree with Tiss but if someone comes up with a sensible idea then I'm all for it. One idea that I just made up out of my head is distinguishing between denying a goalscoring opportunity (pen + yellow) and denying an obvious goal (pen + red). The reason I don't like just making it a yellow every time is it rewards handballs on the line etc by giving the GK an extra chance to save.
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Sounds like what the IFAB guys just said: if the opportunity is a better one than a penalty, red card, otherwise yellow. Seems a sensible comprise, unless I misheard it all of course!

I guess it would mean denying a goalscoring opportunity outside the box would still be red card as a free-kick is unlikely to be better than a one-on-one for example.
 
tomw19 said:
Ah but there are 2 different rules:

1. denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

2. denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

They are listed as 2 different sending off offences. So they could amend the latter one. Deliberate handball has to be a red card every time because the player is deliberately denying a goal.
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Sure but that doesn't really solve it - if my GK is out of position then I could foul someone in the box and have a better chance of not conceding a goal (and not be sent off for it)/

pass the football said:
Sounds like what the IFAB guys just said: if the opportunity is a better one than a penalty, red card, otherwise yellow. Seems a sensible comprise, unless I misheard it all of course!

I guess it would mean denying a goalscoring opportunity outside the box would still be red card as a free-kick is unlikely to be better than a one-on-one for example.
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Oh really, I didn't see. IFAB are a bit of a funny group though. Oh wait - just seen that they have rejected the proposal. Never mind then.



Valcke: "so, long story short, the request from UEFA was not approved". That's pretty much it then by the sounds of it.
 
Qwerty said:
Oh really, I didn't see. IFAB are a bit of a funny group though. Oh wait - just seen that they have rejected the proposal. Never mind then.
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Yeah but what they were saying sounded like another "clarification" of existing rules, which actually has the effect of changing the application of the rules.

I guess we'll see.
 
The easiest way out of this is for the referee to just award a penalty goal (as in rugby). No need for a penalty kick which could be missed - no need to send anyone off
 
Damn, well done Fran. You got Tom talking about refing again...
 
SaintinSerbia said:
The easiest way out of this is for the referee to just award a penalty goal (as in rugby). No need for a penalty kick which could be missed - no need to send anyone off
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That's quite rare in rugby and only a result of a try being denied by persistent foul play (and usually only happens after someone has been sin-binned). I can't see it ever being adopted by football.
 
Another thing being discussed was allowing the wearing of headgear by men and women (pretty sure that was aimed at Muslim women but included men to avoid being accused of sexism). Please don't let Gaston wear that enormous hat he's wearing on OS gallery (also favoured by Mauricio).
 
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