tim sherwood

[No Kane No Gain]

Sherwood is obviously stuck with the players AVB/Baldini/Levy brought in, but a simple change in strategy and formation seems to have improved Spurs' outlook considerably.

Why was an attacking looking 4-4-2 beyond the contemplation of AVB yet is the first thing a rookie manager turns to?

AVB played 442 over the Christmas period last season and described the way we were set up with Bale in a free role as a 442 also, so I don't think that it's the case he was incapable of it.

It's not unusual to see an improvement when a new manager comes in, the pressure goes off the players at that point and I don't think Sherwood has yet improved us. So far he's p6, w3, d1, l2. AVB could've easily achieved a similar record so the only real improvement is that we haven't had a hiding off anyone so far.

Anyhow, I'm hopeful that over the coming weeks Sherwood will be addressing some of the flaws in the system he wants to play. If he can do it quickly it will set him apart from AVB, as that was really the major issue with him, he changed things too little too late.

 

[notsosmartspur]

City unpicked West Ham with the right players in a 442, along with a good few other teams this season. Its not all about a formation, its about players suiting it too.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

It was a masterstroke by AVB playing Bale more centrally. When he did, Spurs didn't really have a recognised formation - Bale played midfield, out wide (both left and right), centre forward and in the hole at various times. This season and without Bale, he seemed to go far too narrow and defensive. If you have very good players, the formation will always be flexible. Suarez goes deep for Liverpool at times, ditto Rooney for Utd. Arsenal have midfielders who can both sit deep and pass the ball and make runs out wide or beyond Giroud. City supposedly play 4-4-2 but it is often 4-2-3-1 with Aguero playing off Negredo and linking up with Silva or Nasri (as they did under Mancini, but with Tevez the one dropping deep).

 

[Boss]

It was a masterstroke by AVB playing Bale more centrally. When he did, Spurs didn't really have a recognised formation - Bale played midfield, out wide (both left and right), centre forward and in the hole at various times. This season and without Bale, he seemed to go far too narrow and defensive. If you have very good players, the formation will always be flexible. Suarez goes deep for Liverpool at times, ditto Rooney for Utd. Arsenal have midfielders who can both sit deep and pass the ball and make runs out wide or beyond Giroud. City supposedly play 4-4-2 but it is often 4-2-3-1 with Aguero playing off Negredo and linking up with Silva or Nasri (as they did under Mancini, but with Tevez the one dropping deep).

At the start of last season he played Bale at left back! I'm not sure I can give Avb full credit for moving Bale centrally if he played Bale at left back agaisnt QPR and then after the game said "it was probably a bad idea".......But one thing that does stand out is that Pacey players like Bale, Defoe, Lennon & Townsend have all at certain periods played some of their best football under Avb so there is something in his management that brings out performances in these players.

 

[PowerSpurs]

City unpicked West Ham with the right players in a 442, along with a good few other teams this season. Its not all about a formation, its about players suiting it too.

City really don't play 442. Silva and Nasri are not wingers in the accepted sense of the word.

 

[PowerSpurs]

At the start of last season he played Bale at left back! I'm not sure I can give Avb full credit for moving Bale centrally if he played Bale at left back agaisnt QPR and then after the game said "it was probably a bad idea".......But one thing that does stand out is that Pacey players like Bale, Defoe, Lennon & Townsend have all at certain periods played some of their best football under Avb so there is something in his management that brings out performances in these players.

Harry played him at left back for months on end!

 

[Boss]

Harry played him at left back for months on end!

When he was a left back! and he performed as a surging left back and won many fans!

Then moved him to Left wing where he was outstanding.

For Avb to think he could have moved Bale back to Left back after his previous attacking performances wasn't his best move.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

When he was a left back! and he performed as a surging left back and won many fans!

Then moved him to Left wing where he was outstanding.

For Avb to think he could have moved Bale back to Left back after his previous attacking performances wasn't his best move.

He did it once. Due to injuries. For 45 minutes.

Pretty sure we were 1-0 down against QPR at half time and, having realised his mistake he made the bold move of taking off a midfielder and putting on a defender so Bale would be pushed forward to left wing. The tactical buffoon, who's never made a good substitution in his life, managed to pull it off and I think we took the lead in about 10 minutes. Depends which way you want to look at it, doesn't it.

I'm pretty sure Redknapp had played Huddlestone and Chimbonda at centre back at one point or another, not to mention Benny at right back against United! Managers experiment from time to time, whether it's because they have to or they want to, so long as they don't stick at it when they get it badly wrong I don't see the problem.

 

[PowerSpurs]

When he was a left back! and he performed as a surging left back and won many fans!

Then moved him to Left wing where he was outstanding.

For Avb to think he could have moved Bale back to Left back after his previous attacking performances wasn't his best move.

Players should not be 'pigeon-holed' into being just capable of certain positions. They are all capable of passing, tackling, heading, dribbling and shooting. The differences are not as big as people make out. I got absolutely castigated on here for saying that Bale could play as a striker - anyone disagree now?

 

[Boss]

Come on YV, you're running away with the point there as that was solely about Avb playing Bale central as a masterstroke when in reality Avb wasn't sure of his best position and played him at left back, left wing and right wing before he went central.

If you want to view that as a masterstroke you can but if you remember in Redknapps last season he had already experimented with Playing Bale through the centre but then we had Vdv.

Avb of course played a part in Bales progress but he certainly doesn't take full credit.

 

[Boss]

Players should not be 'pigeon-holed' into being just capable of certain positions. They are all capable of passing, tackling, heading, dribbling and shooting. The differences are not as big as people make out. I got absolutely castigated on here for saying that Bale could play as a striker - anyone disagree now?

Depends on the footballer. You wouldn't play Modric at centre back or Dawson as right wing but some footballers can be comfortable anywhere on the pitch yet players will get found out in certain areas of the pitch.

Bale as striker. You can pat yourself on the back. You deserve that one after backing AVB!

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I'm pretty sure Redknapp had played Huddlestone and Chimbonda at centre back at one point or another

He picked Huddlestone and Bassong at centre-back against Villa in the 10/11 season, with Hutton at right-back, van der Vaart on the right wing and a forward pairing of Crouch and Pavlyuchenko.
Jenas and Modric were picked together in the middle of the park, we still had Gomes in goal, Clattenburg was the ref and we somehow won 2-1!

 

[remembercolinlee]

Just watching the 1st half highlights on skys match choice...interesting to watch how angry sherwood was on the touch line...I cant imagine he was very pleasant to the team at ht...his changes in 2nd half tactical and sub wise worked out well...thats a big positive in my book...avb didnt really seem to do that this season.
Off the point but is that the worst ever penalty taken

 

[Spurf]

It's always a mark of a manager to see if he can turn games around at half time.

 

[PowerSpurs]

It's always a mark of a manager to see if he can turn games around at half time.

Hmm, so many people say. But isn't the truth of the matter that we simply have a better team than Palace so we will be better than them in most halves. I didn't really see any changes in the way we set up, just that Palace ran out of steam. One route one goal and an offside one is hardly evidence of tactical genius in the manager.

We were really lucky yesterday that we were not 2-0 down at half time. If the manager is getting credit for 'turning it around' who has the responsibility for the dire first half performance?

 

[Spurf]

Hmm, so many people say. But isn't the truth of the matter that we simply have a better team than Palace so we will be better than them in most halves. I didn't really see any changes in the way we set up, just that Palace ran out of steam. One route one goal and an offside one is hardly evidence of tactical genius in the manager.

We were really lucky yesterday that we were not 2-0 down at half time. If the manager is getting credit for 'turning it around' who has the responsibility for the dire first half performance?

PS I don't find your argument convincing just looking for a counter view for the sake of it.

The second half performance was different, more commitment more control and more ball retention. It's not just how players are lined up on the park. Sherwood already said he did not expect palace to be so aggressive and that alone is a good sign, a man who can admit to being at fault is a strong man. So Sherwood himself pointed to the fact that the game plan was wrong and changed it. Can't ask more than that.

 

[PowerSpurs]

PS I don't find your argument convincing just looking for a counter view for the sake of it.

The second half performance was different, more commitment more control and more ball retention. It's not just how players are lined up on the park. Sherwood already said he did not expect palace to be so aggressive and that alone is a good sign, a man who can admit to being at fault is a strong man. So Sherwood himself pointed to the fact that the game plan was wrong and changed it. Can't ask more than that.

I've got a completely consistent view that football is more random than most people think but that the best tactics and players win through in the long run. It's easy to confuse random events with managerial decisions. We'd beat Palace in nine matches out of ten regardless of line up, formation and substitutions so I'd say the second half was par for the course and the first half way below that. I'm not trying to criticise Sherwood, way too early for that, but also too early to give him credit.

 

[remembercolinlee]

I've got a completely consistent view that football is more random than most people think but that the best tactics and players win through in the long run. It's easy to confuse random events with managerial decisions. We'd beat Palace in nine matches out of ten regardless of line up, formation and substitutions so I'd say the second half was par for the course and the first half way below that. I'm not trying to criticise Sherwood, way too early for that, but also too early to give him credit.

That was our first home win over palace in 8 attempts...football aint about whats on paper...I would not be afraid of betting otherwise!

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I've long held the view that if a team has the fitness and pace to be able to press the opposition for the entire game when ever they lose the ball, they'll stop the opposition from scoring. Okay, it won't guarantee that the pressing team will win, but it will go a very long way to ensuring that you don't lose.

I can only assume that the reason why teams in the Prem don't do this is because they lack the necessary fitness and/or discipline (because it requires the entire squad to all press at the same time, every time, in order to fully restrict the space available on the pitch). If I was the manager of a Prem side, that is the primary tactic I would use, all the time. Barca, when they were at their invincible best, passed the ball around and kept possession for at least 60% of the match, and the other 40% of the time, they pressed the opposition into making mistakes. There was absolutely no let up from the entire team.

 

[Spudulike]

The second half performance was different, more commitment more control and more ball retention. It's not just how players are lined up on the park. Sherwood already said he did not expect palace to be so aggressive and that alone is a good sign, a man who can admit to being at fault is a strong man. So Sherwood himself pointed to the fact that the game plan was wrong and changed it. Can't ask more than that.

I must admit that I am starting to warm to Sherwood. His earlier cockiness has gradually developed into a more serious demenour in recent games. You can see he's starting to relish the job and take the role seriously, especially after the OT win where I feel he was given a massive boost of confidence, self-belief and more importantly, justification for taking the hot seat. It was however, also a lesson that you should remain grounded win, lose or draw. He's a young guy who's been given a great squad to work with so anyone one of us put in that position would jump at the chance and grab it with both hands. He's not done too badly so far has he? Undefeated in the Prem since he took over and we look a team now. Still rough around the edges but with injuries mounting and options limited, he's done okay considering. Can't say any other manager would do any better up to this point. Bigger, tougher tests to come though but for the moment, we have to be satisfied that miraculously, we are still within spitting distance of the top four. Some interesting fixtures coming up over the next month and with a bit of luck, who knows? All i can say is I'm a far happier Spur than I was about a month ago under AVB. I really hope I am wrong about my first thoughts about Sherwood's appointment and he turns out to be a real find. Good luck to him I say and get behind the team. COYS!