CTWD Membership running total is

[chien]

**** me, I'd hate to be your SO.

SO? anyway make that 15, just added 5, 10 to go

 

[Walter Sobchak]

So nobody has decided that we should change our name? Regardless of the permissions needed, Assem Allam has decided he wants to change the name. Your argument is weak DMD. AA makes the decision, various authorities approve the decision. We'll just agree to disagree.

I've decided I'm a millionaire. Hang on a sec, I don't seem to be a millionaire. But how can that be since I decided I was? etc.

 

[Fez]

The decision on whether to change Hull City into Hull Tigers is made by the FA.

870 members is something I'm happy with. We'll soon have a paper membership form and we'll be able to ask people to sign up and pay cash. Our target audience will be in the same place fairly regularly over the coming months, so I expect to see some increase over the coming months.

Sorry Obadiah, but I am going to use your post to give, what I think, is the correct interpretation, as I believe yours and the others are expressed incorrectly. Let's take this as it should happen:

AA is rejected by HCC and then has the vindictive brainstorm to change the club's historic name from Hull City AFC to Hull Tigers.
Then starts the AA led campaign of deception, manipulation and bullying against his business customer base (the supporters) - their opinion is irrelevant at this stage, the abuse of power is the same across the board.
A number of supporters detect the deception and manipulation and, informally, they ask questions. Time shows that the answers are dishonest and deliberately misleading.
A plea for honesty and discussion falls on deaf ears so a formal counter-campaign is formed (CTWD) - yes, it is a counter-campaign against the one started by AA.
Through a meeting with AA and simple inoffensive protest, CTWD achieve public awareness and widespread media attention. Through irrational and ill-considered public comment, AA has brought his campaign into national disrepute and public ridicule.
His football manager has had to intervene as he knows that the club's position is damaging the season. He knows the owner is a crazy old coot, but couldn't possibly say so.
Regardless, AA can offer his new choice of name to the FA/PL for their considered opinion, he must also offer them proof of consultation with supporters and stakeholders as a minimum and possibly more.
The FA/PL will look at the name, the evidence of consultation, the Pros and Cons and the reasons for change. Once this is concluded, within an agreed timescale, the FA/PL will give their judgment.

Now this is the important bit that I have not seen correctly stated:

The judgment is NO, so the club is not allowed to change its name to the one proffered - we presume that is Hull Tigers. For the next season we must remain Hull City AFC or AA can act as a renegade and test the authorities, or AA can conform to rules and challenge the decision, or he can take the huff and sell.

The judgment is YES and AA puts his implementation plans into motion or he changes his mind as a massive appeasement to the supporters - but that decision is his, not that of the FA or PL; they simply give or do not give him permission for a change to the proffered name, they do not decide whether or not to implement it.

Does anyone see it any differently?

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

SO? anyway make that 15, just added 5, 10 to go

So your just paying for random people to join the campaign who have no affinity for Hull City? Seriously mate stop thats weakening the campaign.

As i said CTWD should have stipulated who are season pass holders as they are the ones CTWD want to have a vote on the name change. 10000 season pass holders as members is compelling what your doing isnt.

 

[Fez]

The FA and PL don't just authorise the name change, they have to agree to it, or it can't be changed.

The PL definitely don't want it changed, the FA are harder to pin down, as they're not a nine to five business operation. They are a group who meet very occasionally and don't normally like getting involved with anything until they have to and as AA has not applied to change our name, they will not yet meet with us to discuss something that hasn't yet happened.

If AA is just expecting to get this rubber stamped, then he's likely to be a little surprised at what's actually involved, as the football world is against this happening and the FA definitely don't want another Wimbledon on their hands.

I think they would be considered to be agreeing with it (the benefits of change)to authorise it, otherwise it's all a bit daft.

 

[chien]

So your just paying for random people to join the campaign who have no affinity for Hull City? Seriously mate stop thats weakening the campaign.

As i said CTWD should have stipulated who are season pass holders as they are the ones CTWD want to have a vote on the name change. 10000 season pass holders as members is compelling what your doing isnt.

Erm NO, and they do have an affinity to the club "ME" they have all been told of what has been going on at the club and the name change, I texted all but two (my kids) and explained what was going on and would they like to be members and help out, 13 people have replied and offered there support and offered to pay, i said to all my friends you can have it as a xmas gift.....And with people asking my friends about the wristbands surely this can bring more attention to the campaign.....SOOOO what your problem?

 

[Obadiah]

Sorry Obadiah, but I am going to use your post to give, what I think, is the correct interpretation, as I believe yours and the others are expressed incorrectly. Let's take this as it should happen:


The judgment is NO, so the club is not allowed to change its name to the one proffered - we presume that is Hull Tigers. For the next season we must remain Hull City AFC or AA can act as a renegade and test the authorities, or AA can conform to rules and challenge the decision, or he can take the huff and sell.

The judgment is YES and AA puts his implementation plans into motion or he changes his mind as a massive appeasement to the supporters - but that decision is his, not that of the FA or PL; they simply give or do not give him permission for a change to the proffered name, they do not decide whether or not to implement it.

Does anyone see it any differently?

Sorry to cut out the bit in the middle.

You call it a judgement, but the FA will sit in a room and vote yes or no to the proposed name change. A no vote is final unless Assem Allam can find a way of legally challenging it. If it stands the only way he can turn renegade is by leaving the FA and the Premier League.

He could take the huff and try and sell. The first thing a potential buyer would ask is how much of your debt are you going to write off. No commercial purchaser would pay him back £100 million.

If they vote yes that's our playing name. It goes into the FA records and all our fixtures will be in the name of Hull Tigers. If he wants to change it back he must make another application to the FA and they will vote on that.

 

[chien]

Sorry Obadiah, but I am going to use your post to give, what I think, is the correct interpretation, as I believe yours and the others are expressed incorrectly. Let's take this as it should happen:

AA is rejected by HCC and then has the vindictive brainstorm to change the club's historic name from Hull City AFC to Hull Tigers.
Then starts the AA led campaign of deception, manipulation and bullying against his business customer base (the supporters) - their opinion is irrelevant at this stage, the abuse of power is the same across the board.
A number of supporters detect the deception and manipulation and, informally, they ask questions. Time shows that the answers are dishonest and deliberately misleading.
A plea for honesty and discussion falls on deaf ears so a formal counter-campaign is formed (CTWD) - yes, it is a counter-campaign against the one started by AA.
Through a meeting with AA and simple inoffensive protest, CTWD achieve public awareness and widespread media attention. Through irrational and ill-considered public comment, AA has brought his campaign into national disrepute and public ridicule.
His football manager has had to intervene as he knows that the club's position is damaging the season. He knows the owner is a crazy old coot, but couldn't possibly say so.
Regardless, AA can offer his new choice of name to the FA/PL for their considered opinion, he must also offer them proof of consultation with supporters and stakeholders as a minimum and possibly more.
The FA/PL will look at the name, the evidence of consultation, the Pros and Cons and the reasons for change. Once this is concluded, within an agreed timescale, the FA/PL will give their judgment.

Now this is the important bit that I have not seen correctly stated:

The judgment is NO, so the club is not allowed to change its name to the one proffered - we presume that is Hull Tigers. For the next season we must remain Hull City AFC or AA can act as a renegade and test the authorities, or AA can conform to rules and challenge the decision, or he can take the huff and sell.

The judgment is YES and AA puts his implementation plans into motion or he changes his mind as a massive appeasement to the supporters - but that decision is his, not that of the FA or PL; they simply give or do not give him permission for a change to the proffered name, they do not decide whether or not to implement it.

Does anyone see it any differently?

I want your babies

 

[chien]

Erm NO, and they do have an affinity to the club "ME" they have all been told of what has been going on at the club and the name change, I texted all but two (my kids) and explained what was going on and would they like to be members and help out, 13 people have replied and offered there support and offered to pay, i said to all my friends you can have it as a xmas gift.....And with people asking my friends about the wristbands surely this can bring more attention to the campaign.....SOOOO what your problem?

I am not a pass holder but i do spend a **** load of cash on the online shop and on away tickets and some home......So if AA want to keep me happy and have my money dont change the name......simple

Sorry this was for chazz and the pass holders vote i am 100% sure pass holders would vote NO to the name change. And the above is to say what he would be losing in merchandise from me and i am sure many many others

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

Erm NO, and they do have an affinity to the club "ME" they have all been told of what has been going on at the club and the name change, I texted all but two (my kids) and explained what was going on and would they like to be members and help out, 13 people have replied and offered there support and offered to pay, i said to all my friends you can have it as a xmas gift.....And with people asking my friends about the wristbands surely this can bring more attention to the campaign.....SOOOO what your problem?

I've stated my problem with it, you've chosen to ignore it. Fair do's.

 

[chien]

I've stated my problem with it, you've chosen to ignore it. Fair do's.

whats to ignore? 13 people who are football supporters that are willing to support the campaign, whats wrong with that? what am i missing? how is that weaking the campaign?

Dammed if you dammed if you dont, Never will get the pettiness of this site? we are all ment to be one when it comes to Hull City AFC,

Well thats enough posting for me for the year, Merry Xmas All xxxx

 

[Fez]

Sorry to cut out the bit in the middle.

You call it a judgement, but the FA will sit in a room and vote yes or no to the proposed name change. A no vote is final unless Assem Allam can find a way of legally challenging it. If it stands the only way he can turn renegade is by leaving the FA and the Premier League.

He could take the huff and try and sell. The first thing a potential buyer would ask is how much of your debt are you going to write off. No commercial purchaser would pay him back £100 million.

If they vote yes that's our playing name. It goes into the FA records and all our fixtures will be in the name of Hull Tigers. If he wants to change it back he must make another application to the FA and they will vote on that.

I understand why you cut the bit in the middle, it's of no importance to your response, just my view of how we have got to this point.

To sit in a room, listen to argument and study the rationale and then sit in a position of being the decision maker on allowing authority to act, or not, is making a judgment. Few decisions are ever truely final, there will be scope for an appeal, it will take time and remain uncertain, is all.

If it stands, as you put it, he can remain the renegade he currently is. He can change those signs changed to Hull City Tigers to Hull Tigers, he can use Hull Tigers in marketing, he can put it on the shirts, he can instruct Others to call us Hull Tigers, just as he shamelessly asks them to call us Hull City Tigers now. Being a renegade is not something new to him.

When it comes to him selling, I only offer it ad an option, which it is; regardless of how improbable. Do not, though, underestimate his ability to broker a deal.

I am puzzled by your assertiveness on this final point. Let me use the extension analogy of other poster (I fancy a Petrocelli moment, as it's quite apt), I can apply for and gain permission to erect an extension of a particular specification, as agreed by the authorities who hold sway - but the decision to go-ahead and build it is mine and can be decided against should I wish. My understanding is that the name-change process is similar, or do you know something that I (and others) do not? What puzzles me most is that you seem to be inferring that should AA enter the process and no reasonable argument can be found to hold judgment against him and he were told his name-change would be supported, but he then changed his name and decided to keep the historic name, that the authorities would then force his hand to the unpopular name change. That seems to be what you are saying, but surely it is not what you mean, is it?

 

[Obadiah]

I understand why you cut the bit in the middle, it's of no importance to your response, just my view of how we have got to this point.

To sit in a room, listen to argument and study the rationale and then sit in a position of being the decision maker on allowing authority to act, or not, is making a judgment. Few decisions are ever truely final, there will be scope for an appeal, it will take time and remain uncertain, is all.

If it stands, as you put it, he can remain the renegade he currently is. He can change those signs changed to Hull City Tigers to Hull Tigers, he can use Hull Tigers in marketing, he can put it on the shirts, he can instruct Others to call us Hull Tigers, just as he shamelessly asks them to call us Hull City Tigers now. Being a renegade is not something new to him.

When it comes to him selling, I only offer it ad an option, which it is; regardless of how improbable. Do not, though, underestimate his ability to broker a deal.

I am puzzled by your assertiveness on this final point. Let me use the extension analogy of other poster (I fancy a Petrocelli moment, as it's quite apt), I can apply for and gain permission to erect an extension of a particular specification, as agreed by the authorities who hold sway - but the decision to go-ahead and build it is mine and can be decided against should I wish. My understanding is that the name-change process is similar, or do you know something that I (and others) do not? What puzzles me most is that you seem to be inferring that should AA enter the process and no reasonable argument can be found to hold judgment against him and he were told his name-change would be supported, but he then changed his name and decided to keep the historic name, that the authorities would then force his hand to the unpopular name change. That seems to be what you are saying, but surely it is not what you mean, is it?

At the beginning of the season the club fills in Form A, which says what the playing name is. For us this is Hull City now. If he applies to the FA to change the name to Hull Tigers that becomes the playing name which goes on the fixtures, league tables etc. If he fills in the form as Hull City that is not the playing name and the form could be rejected. Not sure what would happen in that instance. Its very bureaucratic but they are the rules.

The application isn't for permission to do something, its the actual deed. In your example the FA is the builder who puts up the extension not the council who approves the application.

 

[lewisc29]

I've decided I'm a millionaire. Hang on a sec, I don't seem to be a millionaire. But how can that be since I decided I was? etc.

Yeah, great point.

 

[Fez]

At the beginning of the season the club fills in Form A, which says what the playing name is. For us this is Hull City now. If he applies to the FA to change the name to Hull Tigers that becomes the playing name which goes on the fixtures, league tables etc. If he fills in the form as Hull City that is not the playing name and the form could be rejected. Not sure what would happen in that instance. Its very bureaucratic but they are the rules.

The application isn't for permission to do something, its the actual deed. In your example the FA is the builder who puts up the extension not the council who approves the application.

You tell me if I am wrong, but I have been led to believe that a change-of-name application is dealt with between January and the end of April. If he applies to change the name to Hull Tigers they will either say no and, possibly, give their reasons for the decision. If they say yes they will inform him of their acceptance of the change and he will have to confirm his intention to commit to the change. There will then be a brief period of marketing and brand consolidation before it is writ-in-stone. If you know different then perhaps it should be posted? I have joined the campaign, but I am extremely frustrated and disappointed that you post little else than gossip and we-thinks; unless we start getting more information then I think your position becomes no more than that of a well intentioned poster. This smoke and mirrors may seem necessary but it really should not be. Post some links to your sources, or even just the full minutes of THE meeting.

 

[merchantman5]

The point is it's a very low number for wht you are achieving and CTWD cannot deny that it's a disappointment.

It's irrelevant how many there are in the "pro" camp because that is not the current fight. The Pro camp is AA and he holds all the cards.
There doesn't need to be a "pro" campaign.

The point is it's a minority in contrast to Hull city fans as a whole. You clearly seem hell bent on ignoring those sat in the middle, who don't want a name change but don't want to instigate any subsequent harm to the club. That is the true majority.

The subsequent harm been what exactly? Allam walking away. It has been explained why there is not a cat in hells chance of that happening. He can't afford to financially and the only way he will get anyone to buy the club is through success on the field not by some stupid name change. All this bollocks he is spouting in the press is to frighten the fans into submission. He did the same thing over the stadium saying he was going to build another one at Melton to frighten the council, they didn't falter and where is the new stadium, in Allams dreams, why, cause he can't raise the cash to build it. Same here he would had to raise a hell of a lot of cash to be able to walk away and not effect his other businesses.

 

[merchantman5]

Sorry Obadiah, but I am going to use your post to give, what I think, is the correct interpretation, as I believe yours and the others are expressed incorrectly. Let's take this as it should happen:

AA is rejected by HCC and then has the vindictive brainstorm to change the club's historic name from Hull City AFC to Hull Tigers.
Then starts the AA led campaign of deception, manipulation and bullying against his business customer base (the supporters) - their opinion is irrelevant at this stage, the abuse of power is the same across the board.
A number of supporters detect the deception and manipulation and, informally, they ask questions. Time shows that the answers are dishonest and deliberately misleading.
A plea for honesty and discussion falls on deaf ears so a formal counter-campaign is formed (CTWD) - yes, it is a counter-campaign against the one started by AA.
Through a meeting with AA and simple inoffensive protest, CTWD achieve public awareness and widespread media attention. Through irrational and ill-considered public comment, AA has brought his campaign into national disrepute and public ridicule.
His football manager has had to intervene as he knows that the club's position is damaging the season. He knows the owner is a crazy old coot, but couldn't possibly say so.
Regardless, AA can offer his new choice of name to the FA/PL for their considered opinion, he must also offer them proof of consultation with supporters and stakeholders as a minimum and possibly more.
The FA/PL will look at the name, the evidence of consultation, the Pros and Cons and the reasons for change. Once this is concluded, within an agreed timescale, the FA/PL will give their judgment.

Now this is the important bit that I have not seen correctly stated:

The judgment is NO, so the club is not allowed to change its name to the one proffered - we presume that is Hull Tigers. For the next season we must remain Hull City AFC or AA can act as a renegade and test the authorities, or AA can conform to rules and challenge the decision, or he can take the huff and sell.

The judgment is YES and AA puts his implementation plans into motion or he changes his mind as a massive appeasement to the supporters - but that decision is his, not that of the FA or PL; they simply give or do not give him permission for a change to the proffered name, they do not decide whether or not to implement it.

Does anyone see it any differently?

Not really as if the FA/PL say no and Allam still changes the name he will have pull the club out of the Football League/PL and that would totally **** up his so called plan for more investment, no one would touch us with a barge pole.

 

[Obadiah]

You tell me if I am wrong, but I have been led to believe that a change-of-name application is dealt with between January and the end of April. If he applies to change the name to Hull Tigers they will either say no and, possibly, give their reasons for the decision. If they say yes they will inform him of their acceptance of the change and he will have to confirm his intention to commit to the change. There will then be a brief period of marketing and brand consolidation before it is writ-in-stone. If you know different then perhaps it should be posted? I have joined the campaign, but I am extremely frustrated and disappointed that you post little else than gossip and we-thinks; unless we start getting more information then I think your position becomes no more than that of a well intentioned poster. This smoke and mirrors may seem necessary but it really should not be. Post some links to your sources, or even just the full minutes of THE meeting.

The only factual information we have are the FA rules. These say:

A Club competing in any one of The Premier League, The Football League, The Football Conference, the Southern Football League, the Isthmian League and the Northern Premier League shall not be permitted to change its playing name (i.e. the name under which the Club competes in a Competition), as recorded on Form “A”, save with the prior written permission of Council.

Any application for a change of playing name must be received by The Association before 1st April in any calendar year in order for it to be considered by Council for adoption in the following playing season. Council will use its absolute discretion in deciding whether to approve a change in a Club’s playing name.


I think it is clear. If Hull City changes its name to Hull Tigers that will be the playing name for the following season. If it then wanted to change back to Hull City then it would have to put in an application and if approved we become Hull City the following season.

There is nothing in the rules which gives him the option of rejecting the decision of the FA without making a further application.

The reason I post we-thinks is based on the simple fact that the vote will be taken when the application is made and I have no idea how the vote will go. When asked I've made this clear, its like playing roulette, you pay your money and take your choice.

I have a feeling (no more) that Assem Allam hasn't taken the FA into account when making his announcements. His comments to me are more likely to annoy them (its my club, why don't you stop supporting the club) than encourage them to say yes.

As a campaign all we can do is make it more difficult for the FA to say yes. That involves showing the depth of opposition to the name change whilst supporting the team on the pitch.

The question of a name change is an historic moment. So in that sense we are all guessing, even the FA.

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

You tell me if I am wrong, but I have been led to believe that a change-of-name application is dealt with between January and the end of April. If he applies to change the name to Hull Tigers they will either say no and, possibly, give their reasons for the decision. If they say yes they will inform him of their acceptance of the change and he will have to confirm his intention to commit to the change. There will then be a brief period of marketing and brand consolidation before it is writ-in-stone. If you know different then perhaps it should be posted? I have joined the campaign, but I am extremely frustrated and disappointed that you post little else than gossip and we-thinks; unless we start getting more information then I think your position becomes no more than that of a well intentioned poster. This smoke and mirrors may seem necessary but it really should not be. Post some links to your sources, or even just the full minutes of THE meeting.

Unfortunately Fez the campaign is going more in another direction now. Its about gaining ownership of the club it seems to me. Hence the lack of openness.

One thing i will say. CTWD are a lot better at PR than the club but one day soon they're going have to show themself. All this Trust talk has been a negative to me and i guess to many others as you wonder about their motives.

 

[Craigo]

The good news for CTWD is OLM is following Chien's example and will this week sign up (on a free-membership basis) 25,000 (yes 25,000!!) of his mates.
Their names are of course confidential, but the main thing is CTWD will have nearly 26,000 members...Hooray!!