Not606 2013 Japanese Grand Prix Race thread

[cosicave]

So Cosi, do your friends have access to every drivers weight? It would be interesting to see a table of them all. It would be interesting to see and compare weight with success.

I can imagine Alonso is quite low too after his intensive winter training. though that kind of weight is borderline crazy

Sorry Bando, not available right now. If I remember, I'll see if I can get a list before the next Grand Prix.

One other thing I'd like to say is that I understand Miggins' stance on F1 politics, even though in this instance, I don't personally view the Webber situation in quite the same light. However, in my view his political point about F1 and propaganda in general is pretty much correct. There have been times where I have felt this has been embarrassingly obvious, reaching its absolute 'over-the-top' zenith with the Schumacher machine (and believe me, it has many, many cogs and still rumbles on due to clever reinforcement long ago&#8230, which threatened F1's very existence. Oddly enough, how it survived was also down to propaganda – very much at the last minute! It also partly underpins my interest in F1 fora.

Nuff sed.

 

[El_Bando]

Thanks Cosi

weirdly the BBC have just posted another story on the issue headed by the opinion of Nigel Mansell

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24568089

Also Benson has part answered my question

You must log in or register to see images

Andrew Benson Chief F1 writer "It matters because 1kg of weight equates to about 0.035secs a lap on an average circuit.
"That means a smaller driver such as Ferrari's Fernando Alonso , who weighs 68kg, is at an advantage over a taller one such as Hulkenberg , who weighs 74kg, to the tune of 0.2secs a lap if the team cannot reduce the car by the amount of their weight difference.
"And even if they can, the taller driver is at a disadvantage because his weight is high up in the car, which also affects performance."

Thanks Benson

 

[Big Ern]

I'm not so sure the CoG is as relevant these days tbh, having had a go in an F1 simulator I know that the term 'sitting in an F1 cockpit' isn't a literal term, more acurate would be 'lying supine in an F1 cockpit'.

 

[cosicave]

I'm not so sure the CoG is as relevant these days tbh, having had a go in an F1 simulator I know that the term 'sitting in an F1 cockpit' isn't a literal term, more acurate would be 'lying supine in an F1 cockpit'.

Yeah, it's lying almost horizontal with knees and feet higher than backside, but if the total difference is 39kg, with all compensatory ballast being placed lower than the driver, it's significant. In addition, the extra ballast can be placed further forward or backward to provide fine tuning. It's also made of tungsten steel which is far more dense than human flesh (as well as almost every part of the car). I also think it relevant this discussion has arisen in light of recent events in Suzuka, where Webber also had a substantially heavier chassis which deprived him of even more ballast, relative to Vettel. The difference in available ballast is normally about 17kg in Vettel's favour but in Suzuka it was 39kg, which, if the quoted figures are correct, is over twice as significant as normal.

Over a single lap, these differences are less because the tyre wear resulting from increased chassis loadings seen with a higher CM (or CoG, if you prefer) show up far more during a race. Sebastian Vettel is very good with tyre management whilst still flying around the track. But guess what? – so far as I know he's the lightest guy out there at present. And guess what else? You guessed it, Webber is just about the heaviest! As far as I know, he's 1kg heavier than BulkyHulk. (Caveat: someone may correct me when I ask him to provide that list Bando wants!).

 

[TomTom94]

Mansell says F1 drivers are "not jockeys". What the hell are they then?

 

[Max Whiplash]

I'm still trying to get my head around Vettel weighing 58kg. He's 176cm tall, that's really thin. I was like a stick when I weighed 65kg and now that I weigh 70 kilos, I still get called skinny. Gutiérrez is 180 tall and 61 kg, I had no idea that the weight issue involved these extremes.

 

[cosicave]

I'm still trying to get my head around Vettel weighing 58kg. He's 176cm tall, that's really thin. I was like a stick when I weighed 65kg and now that I weigh 70 kilos, I still get called skinny. Gutiérrez is 180 tall and 61 kg, I had no idea that the weight issue involved these extremes.

Yep. The current extremes could be set to become even worse, if that's not a contradiction in terms.

It's worth noting that prior to the introduction of KERS, driver weight was a less significant factor in the grand scheme of things. KERS added significant mass to the car but was not compensated for with an equivalent increase in minimum weight, thus handing a bigger advantage to smaller, lighter drivers by dint of the increased importance of ballast, more of which was/is available to them.

 

[Max Whiplash]

A different kind of Hunger Games then

 

[Big Ern]

I'm surprised at the weights tbh, I'd've thought they'd have more muscle mass than that. I suppose the only muscle they really need developed is their necks, and everything else is endurance training.

There is a lesson to be learned though, if you want to have a kid in F1 your wife has to smoke and drink while pregnant, and you gotta get the kid smoking young, stunt that growth. I guess that's why they advertised cigarettes for so long.

 

[cosicave]

I'm surprised at the weights tbh, I'd've thought they'd have more muscle mass than that. I suppose the only muscle they really need developed is their necks, and everything else is endurance training.

There is a lesson to be learned though, if you want to have a kid in F1 your wife has to smoke and drink while pregnant, and you gotta get the kid smoking young, stunt that growth. I guess that's why they advertised cigarettes for so long.

For what it's worth, opportunity (by whatever means), determination, spacial awareness, hand-eye coordination and intelligence are the real keys, especially at early stage. Next (and later) comes fitness. Weight only comes into play after all these boxes are ticked – especially since without junior experience, a senior has virtually no chance. Weight (within reason) is perhaps on a roughly equal footing with finance; so I definitely wouldn't advocate Miggins' parental smoking plan: it wastes too much money!


[Edit. Hand-eye coordination invariably coincides with another factor I missed out: an instinctive sense of balance. If you want to test the relationship between sight and balance – even without doing anything with your hands – just try standing on tip-toe with your eyes shut.]

 

[tomcat606]

Official Race Edit:

http://www.formula1.com/video/?uid=2013101315R