SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Razak and Frimpong didn't live up to expectation, but wouldn't say they were a dud as such. Nouble had a run and was a donkey for all but 5 seconds he played for us.
How long would you give Powell this season ?
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Weren't Razak, Frimpong and Nouble all loanees? As Eddie said, his record on loanees is not good. Leon Clarke is the only real dud he's signed permanently, although he seems to be doing quite nicely now.
The criterion for judging the Good Doctor's record on loan signings should not be whether they were a "dud". That sets the bar too low and also is an emotive word.
The criterion should be whether they were a "mistake". In other words, it would have been better off for the club if we had saved our money and used one of our own players instead (a youngster if necessary to gain experience). Remember that every player borrowed is effectively telling our own players they are not good enough. Sometimes that can be a useful wake-up call but normally it is just dispiriting.
On that criterion I would say the following were mistakes:
Razak
Frimpong
Jonsson
Ephraim (played OK, but no point as we didn't sign him permanently)
Cook
Nouble
The following were just about worth their pay, though far from impressive:
Hulse
Obika (played OK, but no point as we didn't sign him permanently)
Seaborne
N'Guessan
(Who have I forgotten?)
Some filled leaking holes, but none of them really gave the team a boost, though I suspect that rarely happens. After all, the players you take on loan are the players someone else wants to see the back of, so you are always clutching at straws. Coups like signing Kermorgant and Morrison don't come along very often, and only those two because the Good Doctor had the advantage of inside knowledge.
The criterion should be whether they were a "mistake". In other words, it would have been better off for the club if we had saved our money and used one of our own players instead (a youngster if necessary to gain experience). Remember that every player borrowed is effectively telling our own players they are not good enough. Sometimes that can be a useful wake-up call but normally it is just dispiriting.
On that criterion I would say the following were mistakes:
Razak
Frimpong
Jonsson
Ephraim (played OK, but no point as we didn't sign him permanently)
Cook
Nouble
The following were just about worth their pay, though far from impressive:
Hulse
Obika (played OK, but no point as we didn't sign him permanently)
Seaborne
N'Guessan
(Who have I forgotten?)
Some filled leaking holes, but none of them really gave the team a boost, though I suspect that rarely happens. After all, the players you take on loan are the players someone else wants to see the back of, so you are always clutching at straws. Coups like signing Kermorgant and Morrison don't come along very often, and only those two because the Good Doctor had the advantage of inside knowledge.
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Ephraim played his part I thought, couple assists and a goal against 'Udders to help end their long unbeaten run. Surprised to see he's ended up in the MLS - but a lot of players are moving over there due to the American lifestyle.
Other than that I pretty much agree.
Other than that I pretty much agree.
My point is our problem is a lack of quality now, which is 100% not down to Chris Powell. Of course loan signings will be patchy, that is why they are loans in the first place. Nobody loans out a player that is guaranteed to do well. How in any way is the loan signing of Marvin Sordell bizarre? We needed a striker, and brought one in who should really do a job for us. Yeah he has been pants so far but if we loaned in Darren Bent he could have been bad in theory, would you have said that was bizarre too?
We sold Button because he wanted to leave, and to be honest by the look of it we had to because of finances. Saying Powell has a distinctly patchy record when given money is one of the most ridiculous things i have ever read. Signings since Powell has been here include Hamer, Wiggins, Morrison, Taylor, Cort, Hollands, Stephens, Pritchard, BWP and Kermorgant.
Every single one of those signings was a superb bit of business because most of them were the reason we won League One. Kermorgant is possibly the greatest sign of the underlying ability Powell has, nobody wanted him and look how big a player he is for us. Pritchard also, who is not everyones cup of tea but he was plucked from non league football at hardly a young age and has done a good enough job. Wilson was not a bad signing, not a great one but he is hardly a bad player either.
Sorry but anyone who can point the blame at Powell when we have this board giving us nothing but silence and going back on their word regarding the 5 year plan needs a little word with themselves. You cant build an empire with matchsticks
To Eddie, Jimmy, Billy, super et al
Your theories about Cautious Chris are all very admirable...it's just a shame that the old League table rather intrudes on reality
. The one I am looking at this morning on the train to work shows that mighty Burnley have 14 points, newly promoted Bournemouth have 12 points...and there we sit on an inauspicious, nay embarrassing, 5 points. ( We can gloss over the performance not included in that...we were 3-1 down at home to Donny). The perennial red herring about resources doesn't bear scrutiny when you see the likes of Burnley and Bournemouth above us...they both have lower budgets and lower crowds. Maybe (I am bracing myself here...) Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe are better managers than The Living Saint ?
The replies about Powell's patchy transfer record are baffling. I deliberately used the adjective patchy to imply they were a mixed bag. Eddie old chap....did you actually see Dan Seabourne play for us ? He made Greg Halford look like Roberto Carlos. And Button did not want to go...he HAD to go because we deferred payment to Spurs for 12 months, the payment was due, and the owners were skint. Brentford picked up the debt.
I will answer the question posed by the original poster in this thread ( come to think of it, it was me..). I will give Powell until Saturday. I want a win against Millwall. No more excuses, platitudes, triteness, sentimentality, tunnel jumps, statues on the touch line.
Just a win at home to Millwall, please.
Your theories about Cautious Chris are all very admirable...it's just a shame that the old League table rather intrudes on reality
. The one I am looking at this morning on the train to work shows that mighty Burnley have 14 points, newly promoted Bournemouth have 12 points...and there we sit on an inauspicious, nay embarrassing, 5 points. ( We can gloss over the performance not included in that...we were 3-1 down at home to Donny). The perennial red herring about resources doesn't bear scrutiny when you see the likes of Burnley and Bournemouth above us...they both have lower budgets and lower crowds. Maybe (I am bracing myself here...) Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe are better managers than The Living Saint ? The replies about Powell's patchy transfer record are baffling. I deliberately used the adjective patchy to imply they were a mixed bag. Eddie old chap....did you actually see Dan Seabourne play for us ? He made Greg Halford look like Roberto Carlos. And Button did not want to go...he HAD to go because we deferred payment to Spurs for 12 months, the payment was due, and the owners were skint. Brentford picked up the debt.
I will answer the question posed by the original poster in this thread ( come to think of it, it was me..). I will give Powell until Saturday. I want a win against Millwall. No more excuses, platitudes, triteness, sentimentality, tunnel jumps, statues on the touch line.
Just a win at home to Millwall, please.
And who would you bring in? Never promote within is the view most people have and very few managers with experience at this level are about, and even one deemed slightly successful such as Poyet is just a no.
Since you ask Ted....
Paul Tidsdale
Martin Allen
Greg Abbott
Keith Hill
Darren Ferguson
Alan Knill
Richie Barker
Ronnie Moore
All of the above are decent British managers who have consistently punched above their weight with clubs in the lower leagues. Lets not turn CAFC into a one man personality cult like CL does.
Paul Tidsdale
Martin Allen
Greg Abbott
Keith Hill
Darren Ferguson
Alan Knill
Richie Barker
Ronnie Moore
All of the above are decent British managers who have consistently punched above their weight with clubs in the lower leagues. Lets not turn CAFC into a one man personality cult like CL does.
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Bournemouth might have a smaller crowd, but not sure if their budget is smaller. They re-signed key players on bumper contracts, paid 1million for their manager and able to sign players like Andrew Surman on loan. Gates are smaller, but they have sold out to a very rich Russian.
Burnley still have a squad bought from parachute payments - I imagine players like Ings (who subsequently rejected us to sign for them), Treacy, Kightly, Jones, Vokes, Marney, Wallace, Shackell etc are on more money than our top earners.
So if we lose to Millwall, you want CP gone?
Burnley still have a squad bought from parachute payments - I imagine players like Ings (who subsequently rejected us to sign for them), Treacy, Kightly, Jones, Vokes, Marney, Wallace, Shackell etc are on more money than our top earners.
So if we lose to Millwall, you want CP gone?
So basically Greg Abbott as the rest of those are all employed by teams and by all the doom and gloom we can't afford to pay any compensation to them, especially after we pay Powell after sacking him too...cracking plan
if we lose we will be in the bottom 3, possibly even bottom, with the same players who did well ladt season. Something will be very wrong IMO. The club needs a bit of local pride and losing at home to that mob again ain't on.
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Tisdale - hasn't had exeter ticking again since relegation a few years back.
Allen - I assume thats a joke.
Abbott - a manager sacked from League One?
Hill - Living off a spell at Rochdale over 2 years ago.
Darren Ferguson - you think we say bad things about CP and subs? Ask some 'boro fans what they think.
Knill - sacked from how many lower league clubs?
Barker - not sure how he made the list.
Moore - Dinosaur (even rhymes)
Allen - I assume thats a joke.
Abbott - a manager sacked from League One?
Hill - Living off a spell at Rochdale over 2 years ago.
Darren Ferguson - you think we say bad things about CP and subs? Ask some 'boro fans what they think.
Knill - sacked from how many lower league clubs?
Barker - not sure how he made the list.
Moore - Dinosaur (even rhymes)
the old "compensation" red herring, again.
Powell is almost out of contract Ted. We could have a whip round for the little it would cost.
Sorry, V-a-V, but I think you and Typical would be the only contributors, in which case you might need to decide whether or not it was worth digging into your savings.
Trouble is... Yes we wouldnt need to give much compensation to Powell if he were to be sacked but if we wanted to bring another manager in from another club then we most certainly would need to.
And please dont even mention Paul Hart... the bloke is a great Academy Manager but he's not a First Team Manager for example
- Nottingham Forest, 2 wins in 22 games at one point (no goals in 14)
- Swindon Town, from play-off finalists to relegation candidates
You said Powell's record with transfers was patchy, I and others picked you up on that word and tried to show that it is considerably better than 'patchy'. Every manager has made good and bad signings, but I would say Powell has made many more good signings than bad. Seaborne was indeed awful on Boxing Day at home to Ipswich, but played OK in other games (the 2-0 win at Bristol City for instance), and, crucially, his presence meant that Chris Solly could go back to right back. Surely Button leaving isn't Powell's fault?
You're setting an awful lot of store by the table as it currently stands. This time last year Blackburn were top, Watford were 20th, Bristol City were 7th and we were 22nd. It goes to show that the early-season table is not necessarily a reliable guide to how the season will pan out.
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Very interesting! I can see how some fans do begin to panic with Premiership and Championship relegations still in the short term memory - but panicking won't do anyone any good. CP still has the mass backing of the fans and more importantly the squad. We are an average Championship team who I doubt will be able to improve on last years finish, but remaining in the league will represent good value due to constraints placed on CP. It kind of goes back to typicals thread about the excitement of not knowing what each game brings. 4 points from Leicester and Watford was a high, losing to 'udders a bit of a kick in the gonads. Replacing Powell will do very little, and IMO make things worse. Considerably so.
No disrespect, Vol, but you must have a very long stick to scrap the bottom of that managerial barrel. Not one of those names could replace CP, no way.
I don't think CP is the greatest in the world, but he will get better. Like Curbs in the early 90s, we need to be patient and have trust in our manager.
If we are in the bottom three come Christmas, then alarm bells should rightly ring out, but I honestly think we will be safely ensconced in mid-table by then.
Besides, if CP is sacked, it will be Dyer who replaces him. Now that is a nightmare thought.
I don't think CP is the greatest in the world, but he will get better. Like Curbs in the early 90s, we need to be patient and have trust in our manager.
If we are in the bottom three come Christmas, then alarm bells should rightly ring out, but I honestly think we will be safely ensconced in mid-table by then.
Besides, if CP is sacked, it will be Dyer who replaces him. Now that is a nightmare thought.