1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

What happens if?

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Cest Advocaat, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. SAFC_Derry

    SAFC_Derry Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    23
    I hope so mate as I genuinely want PDC to succeed as we need these characters in the game but to do that he also has to look at himself.
     
    #121
  2. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    I think he honestly does, He's already taken responsibility for bad tactics twice publicly that I can recall. That being the Palace game and the first half against Arsenal. He also acknowledged that he messed up with his attitude with Atkinson which resulted in his sending off. There may be more. He speaks a lot. He's a young manager who will make mistakes but by jove he knows football and I hope both He and Sunderland can grow together.
     
    #122
  3. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    I think the language thing with Cabral is a complete red herring personally. I mean, is Garth Bale expected to be fluent in Spanish before he is played in the Real team? Of course not. Pochettino and Capello (in even more key positions as managers) struggled with English but it didn't stop either of them becoming the managers here. Carlos Tevez couldn't speak a word of English at West Ham (not one word) and yet was a key player in keeping them up in his first year.


    Vaughan can speak English and so can Larsson and Gardner (just Lol) but are they playing the kind of football the manager wants? I don't believe Diakite's English is exactly wonderful but he is playing every game now?

    Players of the experience of Cabral (nearly 150 senior games plus European games) doesn't need to be an Oxford language graduate to be able to play football?

    I'm not buying into 'its a language barrier' at all.
     
    #123
  4. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    Really? I find it easy to believe that some pick up languages faster than others, other really struggle. About a week ago Paolo stated that there's been problems with the language. Now he's said that Cabral is having communication problems. We're a team where the coach demands that all players communicate in English, not all teams do that but we do. Putting the pieces together it all makes sense to me. I certainly don't think Paolo is a liar. If the man is guilty of anything it's being too honest.
     
    #124
  5. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,815
    Likes Received:
    150,394
    I travel virtually continually and never find anyone who can't speak a few words of English, even in Byker!

    It's not entirely the 'language barrier' thing though is it, it's the inability to grasp the basics of his what he's being asked to do.

    I think Di Canio is probably using the language thing as a little smokescreen to help hide the lad's blushes.
     
    #125
  6. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    I'm not saying he is a liar just not managing the situation very well IMO. Football is an international sport where players form every corner of the planet move to leagues across the world? Surely it was not beyond even the simplest of minds to expect that if we have employed foreign scouting methods, a foreign director of football and targeted foreign players, that language barriers was always going to play a part? Could this not be resolved with a bit more thought?

    Cabral played and scored in Hong Kong with the kind of goal our team has been crying out for and got everyone of us here excited. Was there a language barrier then? He played a very good game v Fulham with the same language problems but all of a sudden he cant speak English and cant communicate so isn't even on the bench? Really?

    Total red herring IMO.
     
    #126

  7. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    I'm reading he's had another stinker in the reserves. Responsible for conceding, been subbed. In the reserves mate. Yeah, lets just chuck him in the first team, what the heck.

    If Paolo says he's 4th choice at the moment then I believe him 100%, No bad management just Cabral not being good enough. Bally has hauled him off, Is he wrong or managing him badly?
     
    #127
  8. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    I refer you to an answer I gave to an earlier thread.....


    Thing is, he is a 24 year old footballer with over 150 games behind him and has played at UEFA and Champions League standard. He didn't sit down with his agent in the summer and decide to come here to play with a group of kids in our reserves on a chilly Lancashire evening in September did he? From the 2 games I've seen him play he was our best midfielder on show and has already scored a goal from open play against a top 6 EPL team. Oh and he had the same standard of English when we signed him. Its not like he has unlearned the language over the summer is it?

    He wasn't one for the future he was one for now and he isn't even getting a place on the bench. Its not even like the players picked ahead of him are turning on the style and we are winning games is it?

    Something just isn't right about this for me.
     
    #128
  9. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    Yeah, He's struggling to adapt to the English game, whether it's style of play, language barrier or culture, Probably all three. It's not uncommon and when you sign 13 Foreigners theres bound to be some who struggle to adapt. You're way over thinking this fella I reckon. You carry on with your conspiracy theories if you want. I find them utterly bizarre.
     
    #129
  10. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    messed up post.
     
    #130
  11. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    Not half as bizarre as saying a player who has only played 2 games against EPL opposition in his time here; actually scored a goal from open play; has been in the only team to actually win a point this season and arguably could have been given the motm award in both games is 'struggling'?

    Especially when the players picked ahead of him have lost all 3 of the games they have so miserably performed in.


    Still, you have your 'theory' that everything is rosy chum and I'll keep my own opinions alive?
     
    #131
  12. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    So how is cabral doing in training then? How's he performing in the reserves? How's his English coming along? is he settling in to the area ok? Is he making friends? Is he on time? Is he concentrating in training? Can he understand what is being asked of him in training?
     
    #132
  13. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    12,737
    Likes Received:
    13,688
    As regards the 'language barrier' I think it depends on the position you play in the team how important that is. If a striker can't verbally communicate well it isn't going to affect their game in the same way as a defender or defensive midfielder (who need to be in constant communication with the players immediately around them) and I always prefer keepers who keep their defence marshaled, which I would have thought required a decent command of the language.

    Cabral is a strange one and if he isn't in the team because his English is holding back his ability to adapt then it should have at least been raised as a concern by the scouts (and perhaps it was in fairness). It may be that he was brought in with a view to settling in over the first few months and then kick on in the second half of the season - there's nothing wrong with that but does leave you a bit short in the middle and reliant on some distinctly average players.
     
    #133
  14. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    Doesn't matter what position he's in. Paolo only accepts English as the language on the pitch. Full stop. I happen to think, like anything it has it bad side and good side. Slow to gel, a better team once they have gelled.
     
    #134
  15. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    I have no idea but what I do know is in the 2 games Ive seen him play in so far - against Spurs and Fulham - he has scored, looked very comfortable on the ball, has pace and can pass the ball to our players. All of which the current incumbents of the shirt cant.

    Dont give a **** what language he speaks; or how well he trains; or any of that but I do care about our team that desperately required new faces but that is still relying on ones that achieved the grand total of **** all and a 4th from bottom finish last year.

    That I really do know.
     
    #135
  16. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,815
    Likes Received:
    150,394
    So are you saying the fault lies entirely with the manager and the player should be an automatic choice in very game?

    BTW, I think you're totally wrong to concentrate on the language aspect, I believe it's more to do with his play.
     
    #136
  17. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,295
    Oh well, so long as you've seen two games. Hail the oracle of all knowledge because he's seen him in two games. <doh>
     
    #137
  18. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    Of course no player should be an automatic choice but what did you make of his 2 games against Spurs and Fulham then Smug? They are all we can go with as the cup game was a poor show from 5 or 6 players and not solely down to him.

    Did you not see a better player than Vaughan or Larsson in the centre? If the lad was way off the pace or played badly I can maybe understand but he didnt imo. I thought we had at last signed a real player after Spurs and Fulham and then he didn't even get on the bench for Southampton and has been a no show ever since?

    Do you think as PDC seemingly does that he performed poorly in those games and doesn't deserve a run in the team then?
     
    #138
  19. Cest Advocaat

    Cest Advocaat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,129
    Likes Received:
    230
    Hello, you put the toys back in the pram now then?


    I can only comment on the 2 games I've seen him play you silly boy. He played really well IMO and I've seen enough of Larsson, Gardner and Vaughan in the middle of our midfield for the last year to know they are ****e together. Cabral isn't a young snot nosed inexperienced novice.
     
    #139
  20. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,815
    Likes Received:
    150,394
    I wasn't aware that PDC thought he was poor in those games, neither did I.

    You can only really count the Fulham game which was a home game we lost, the other was a pre-season friendly so pretty much irrelevant.

    If Di Canio gave the player specific instructions which he totally ignored then the manager has a problem.

    Does he ignore it and allow the other players to believe they can all act exactly as they choose?

    The fact is that the manager is choosing not to play someone at a time when he needs results ........ unless it's deliberate managerial suicide then he obviously has good reasons.
     
    #140

Share This Page