***Swansea Vs Liverpool Match Thread***

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Tobes said:
Read it again, I said the chance was gifted to you - not the goal.

Unless you think that being handed the ball on the half way line with the opposition pushed up, so you can get a straight run at the heart of their defence, isn't a 'chance'?
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Whenever you have the ball there is a chance but fair enough. I guess the bit that is bugging me is that our two goals are being referred to has gifts whereas theirs aren't. IMO, all four goals were defensive errors and therefore could all be counted as gifts.
 
Tobes said:
Bollocks. Not every goal comes from a mistake, sometimes attacking skill wins over the defensive cover, without a specific individual or team mistake having been made, there is no debate, it's a simple fact.
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That's just not true Tobes. If a piece of skill beats a defender, then that defender has ****ed up i'm afraid!
 
mighty_stevie_g said:
This is a non argument guys - every chance created is the result of a mistake.

Either from giving the ball away or from poor defending.

Show me a goal, I'll show you a mistake.
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I agree, but as I just said above, why call Moses goal a gift but not the Michu goal? Both were just as bad as each other.
 
Gerrez said:
Whenever you have the ball there is a chance but fair enough. I guess the bit that is bugging me is that our two goals are being referred to has gifts whereas theirs aren't. IMO, all four goals were defensive errors and therefore could all be counted as gifts.
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Their first was more of a freak fluke than a gift - the kind I would throw my controller if scored against me in FIFA; miskick beats defender then shot blocked but rebounds straight back to attacker.
 
I agree that goals come from mistakes but then why have skill, movement, sharp passing then? Let's just all wait for the mistake? Got to have the attacking prowess to create that mistake.
 
Gerrez said:
I agree, but as I just said above, why call Moses goal a gift but not the Michu goal? Both were just as bad as each other.
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Well it was 2 on 6 so they only had half their team behind the ball not the Everton-regulation all of them. Gift.
 
Bluff City Red said:
I agree that goals come from mistakes but then why have skill, movement, sharp passing then? Let's just all wait for the mistake? Got to have the attacking prowess to create that mistake.
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To force the mistake, also the higher the skill the smaller the mistake needs to be to create a valid opening.
 
Tobes said:
There was a spell in that first half, when I was watching you & thinking "Christ, these are as good as anything I've seen this season", which was a genuine worry, I have to admit.

But, you gave me some reassurance with a tepid 2nd half display <laugh>
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Well we couldn't have you that depressed so soon in the season. <laugh>

Although I've been saying it about almost every team I've watched so far.

I watch United & think "no way they're winning it this year" but then I watch Chelsea or City and think "no way they're winning it this year"

Haven't really seen Arsenal & Spurs matches so I can't evaluate....

And then you have The Evertons, The Swansea etc all capable of beating anyone, all capable of a run in form that puts them up there.

It's gonna be a tight one from 1-8.....tighter than last year anyway.
 
mighty_stevie_g said:
That's just not true Tobes. If a piece of skill beats a defender, then that defender has ****ed up i'm afraid!
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Utter bollocks mate.

If an attacking player beats his opponent, it doesn't automatically mean that the defender has made an error, it means he's been outdone by an opponent.
If 6ft 7in Crouch wins a header against a 6ft CB & scores, then you can't label the fact that he's got to the ball ahead of the smaller opponent as a defensive error ffs.

It's utter nonsense to try & label every goal as having it's origins in an error, as opposed to piece of skill.
 
Foredeckdave said:
MSG is correct. If a goal is cored then either the goalie, or the defenders have made a mistake irrespective of the skill employed.
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Tobes said:
Bollocks. Not every goal comes from a mistake, sometimes attacking skill wins over the defensive cover, without a specific individual or team mistake having been made, there is no debate, it's a simple fact.
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I see both arguments here. If a team is setup in a certain way then a goal could be scored without any defensive mistake happening. However, hindsight is wonderful and tells you that if you had put player X, Y or Z in position A, B or C then the goal would have been prevented. Does this count as a managerial mistake? Bit harsh but probably (of course, there is less focus on individual situations when it comes to managers too).
 
Dirtyfrank said:
Well we couldn't have you that depressed so soon in the season. <laugh>

Although I've been saying it about almost every team I've watched so far.

I watch United & think "no way they're winning it this year" but then I watch Chelsea or City and think "no way they're winning it this year"

Haven't really seen Arsenal & Spurs matches so I can't evaluate....

And then you have The Evertons, The Swansea etc all capable of beating anyone, all capable of a run in form that puts them up there.

It's gonna be a tight one from 1-8.....tighter than last year anyway.
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I agree, I think it's going to be a very interesting season & maybe the most open in many a long year.

Ultimately you'd expect that class will out & those with the biggest & best squads will assume their 'rightful' positions, but you never know.....
 
Foredeckdave said:
MSG is correct. If a goal is cored then either the goalie, or the defenders have made a mistake irrespective of the skill employed.
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astroturfnaut said:
Their first was more of a freak fluke than a gift - the kind I would throw my controller if scored against me in FIFA; miskick beats defender then shot blocked but rebounds straight back to attacker.
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Air shot, blocked shot, lucky bounces, etc... Yep, controller through the TV sounds good to me <laugh>
 
Tobes said:
Utter bollocks mate.

If an attacking player beats his opponent, it doesn't automatically mean that the defender has made an error, it means he's been outdone by an opponent.
If 6ft 7in Crouch wins a header against a 6ft CB & scores, then you can't label the fact that he's got to the ball ahead of the smaller opponent as a defensive error ffs.

It's utter nonsense to try & label every goal as having it's origins in an error, as opposed to piece of skill.
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Who let the crosser play the ball in the first place?
 
Tobes said:
Utter bollocks mate.

If an attacking player beats his opponent, it doesn't automatically mean that the defender has made an error, it means he's been outdone by an opponent.
If 6ft 7in Crouch wins a header against a 6ft CB & scores, then you can't label the fact that he's got to the ball ahead of the smaller opponent as a defensive error ffs.

It's utter nonsense to try & label every goal as having it's origins in an error, as opposed to piece of skill.
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But you could question the team allowing the cross in the first place, or allowing the team space out wide. As I said, I agree with both sides as it is possible to question everything in football but sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say "well played".
 
It doesn't matter how goals come along, if Shelvey hadn't made the mistkes it doesn't mean that Swansea win 2-0! If we had gone in half time 1-0 down then our attitude to the 2nd half would have been different and the scoreline changed. It finished 2-2 and we got a point away and are top of the league again. Bring on the next game, lets see if we can continue this run.
 
luvgonzo said:
It doesn't matter how goals come along, if Shelvey hadn't made the mistkes it doesn't mean that Swansea win 2-0! If we had gone in half time 1-0 down then our attitude to the 2nd half would have been different and the scoreline changed. It finished 2-2 and we got a point away and are top of the league again. Bring on the next game, lets see if we can continue this run.
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Correct <badger>
 
astroturfnaut said:
Who let the crosser play the ball in the first place?
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let? So Ronaldo or Bale skinning a full back & whipping in an inch perfect cross is ALWAYS a result of a full backs error? I think not....

You want to ignore that blurt Hansen on MOTD & embrace the game lad. Pure skill often wins over pragmatic defending......
 
How do you prepare for this? touch off his chest away from goal and then just imagination and pure magic?
[video=youtube;IYkdPxRwPVA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYkdPxRwPVA[/video]


Takes touch away from goal, defender close, etc. Sometimes as frank says you just have to admire that bit of skill won out.
 
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