How long would you give Powell this season ?

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typical said:
What boils my pee is that cafc fans have gave him a knighthood two games into his becoming Manager. Why? Is is some form of white middle class form of acceptance? Like 'our' frank Bruno or 'Britain's favourite funny man' Lenny Henry? why do we need to do that?
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It is because they have overcome their 'horrible handicaps' to achieve great things in their respective fields.

Like the Walton's, methinks.
 
typical said:
Chris has hardly achieved the moon landing with a promotion from what was in all honesty a very poor div 1 and he had backing to do it.
VOL has properly pointed out how creepy it is to want to keep a manager at the expense of investment, which means that the kids in the academy and the fans will suffer for what.?
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It may not have been a lunar landing but it was a division that we and others have struggled to get out of. You only have to look at Sheffield United's continued pain to realise it is not as easy as it looks.

I do not understand the proposition of keeping a manager at the expense of investment since to get rid of a manager means you have to hire a new one who is going to demand a long contract. Keeping a manager maintains the cost base as it is, rather than increasing it - so your point is?? History shows us that new managers also always have a point to prove buying in new players, sometimes wisely, sometimes not but in most cases buying. That is not something we can afford either and the people who would be harmed would be the youngsters who would be bereft of funding.

Typical, I am not one to give CP a "knighthood" I think he was a well thought out choice as manager who went down well with the fans. He has also over achieved with a limited budget and bought the best out of a bunch of players that many of us thought might not cut the mustard at Championship level, but did.

Is he the messiah, no.
Is he best thing since sliced bread, no.
Can he walk on water, no.
Can he do his job, so far the answer is yes.
Is there somebody out there who could do a better job, possibly.
Can we afford to sign them up, no.
Does he have my support, yes.
Is it unconditional, of course not.

If, at the end of this season, we are relegated, then I will agree that the time has come to question his position, but it will be question, not demand something that is beyond the means of the club. The economics of football has changed dramatically over the last ten seasons, and will continue to evolve through tinkering at FA, Premier and Football league levels. With so many unknown quantities out there, I for one would prefer to have something stable to hang the hat on rather than another unknown quantity.
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VolauVent Addick said:
@ Captain

The debate about Powell's merits as a manager is becoming increasingly polarised. I find myself agreeing 100% with Typical's view. When apparently serious people are saying that they are more concerned about seeing one man stay at the club ad infinitum in preference to gaining new investment and security for the club, hero worship has turned into something a little more creepy, IMO. I am in purdah on CP for the next three games now (all of which I plan to go to). He needs 7 points IMO. God knows what the records are that you keep referring to ? We basically bought promotion from the old Div 3 with the Jenkinson money ( a player Parky brought on)
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Looking at the thread on CL, lots of people are making valid points that investment isn't a guarantee of success - look at Blackburn. Lots are also saying they would rather have the investment if it were done properly. It's probably a hypothetical question that was put there, and I think most Charlton fans recognise that investment that involved getting rid of Powell wouldn't automatically be a wise move just because it meant we had more money. Pardew proved that a bad manager with lots of money is a lot worse than a good manager with little money.

The records I am referring to are these (all from 2011/12):
- Most points in a single season (101)
- Most away points in a single season (50)
- Most wins in a single season (30)
- Fewest defeats in a single season (5)
- Most away wins in a single season (15)
- Fewest away defeats in a single season (3)
- Fewest goals conceded in a single season (36)
- Most teams beaten (21)

And from 2012/13
- Biggest away win (6-0 v Barnsley)

Parky brought Jenkinson through, yes, but only played him in one game (at Brentford in the JPT). Powell gave him a run in the team, and it was his decision to sell Jenkinson that got us the money to assemble the 2011/12 squad. Plus, he made the tough decision to let Semedo go, which has proven a success, as well as getting rid of Racon, Abbott, MacCormack, Llera and Stewart, freeing up wage bill money for the new signings. That's not buying promotion a la Manchester City or Chelsea, that's savvy management - getting better players in than we had before.
 
I think Typical must be referring to the stupid "Powell or Investment" thread on CL. A ridiculous question, as if there is going to be some sort of decision either way!
Is The Doctor now the 3rd longest-serving manager in the Championship after Clough and Mowbray?
 
typical said:
What points? Chris has hardly achieved the moon landing with a promotion from what was in all honesty a very poor div 1 and he had backing to do it. If Powell is called a Sir by disproportionate amounts of fans there must be a reason behind it? No one has explained that reason or given it validation when put against other more successful CAFC managers. VOL has properly pointed out how creepy it is to want to keep a manager at the expense of investment, which means that the kids in the academy and the fans will suffer for what.? We are told that Chris loves the fans and the club-where is the evidence for that? Does he have a picture of the West Stand massives on his wall? I am tired of this one directional view of this club that the board are all bad and Chris is keeping the ship afloat. My view is like every badge kissing faker that dons a shirt he will play for ever who pays him the most. So pass me the bucket when I hear that he loves the club! Remember Parker?

Sir Geoff was nicknamed sir by the ICC when he was the first player to enter the hall of fame- and he hated it, knowing full well that his MBE was all the recognition he would ever get given his gob. So it was ironic rather than endearing. Why no adulation for AC then? who actually did achieve something special?
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Maybe the points I've made?

I've provided evidence of his love for the club above.

You said above that he has to be judged fairly, and of course that is correct. The points I and others have made show that judging him fairly means giving him longer than Vol's 3 games when he has proven over the course of the 2 seasons to be a very good manager. Last season we went through the whole of December without winning - should he have been sacked then?
 
I have never said three games is enough to judge Powell, three seasons maybe. All I am demonstrating is that if Powell succeeds at cafc he will leave, if he fails he will be sacked. That is the nature of the beast. It's no good pointing to some emotional attachment that you perceive CP has for this club, as I pointed out already, Snotty Parker amply demonstrates that badge kissing and crocodile tears is for the cameras only.

Why is CP treated as this magical hero and the best thing that happened to cafc in recent years. Surely the people that attend the matches devotedly each week and the board for appointing him and saving us from administration (and paying wages) deserve just a little bit more credit.
 
Who said anything about "magical hero"? I said he's a very good manager. If you disagree, what is wrong with his management style, exactly?
If he fails he will be sacked-not rocket science!
If he succeeds he will leave. Probably, not definitely.
Typical- you seem to have a quarrel with posters on another forum, why don't you argue your views there?
 
typical said:
I have never said three games is enough to judge Powell, three seasons maybe. All I am demonstrating is that if Powell succeeds at cafc he will leave, if he fails he will be sacked. That is the nature of the beast. It's no good pointing to some emotional attachment that you perceive CP has for this club, as I pointed out already, Snotty Parker amply demonstrates that badge kissing and crocodile tears is for the cameras only.

Why is CP treated as this magical hero and the best thing that happened to cafc in recent years. Surely the people that attend the matches devotedly each week and the board for appointing him and saving us from administration (and paying wages) deserve just a little bit more credit.
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Watch his interview at Carlisle and tell me if you think that was just for the cameras. You haven't answered my point comparing Powell at Charlton with Warnock at Leeds or Graham at Spurs. I think the emotional bond Powell has engendered with the club and the fans does have an impact in creating a feelgood factor around the club, which in turn means the fans are more willing to get behind the team when things are going badly on the pitch.

CAFC, like any club, is about success on the field. Before Powell arrived, we had finished every season since 2004 lower than the previous one. The fact that he has reversed that trend is why I regard him as the best thing that has happened to this club since Alan Curbishley.

Of course the fans deserve credit, particularly for the support they gave the team after we went 2-0 down at home to Cardiff last season. Of course the board deserves credit for saving us from administration and having the faith in Powell, not only to appoint him in the first place but to stick with him after the awful run we had in towards the end of the 2010/11 season. You seem to present supporting Powell and supporting the board as being mutually exclusive; I don't think that's the case. I certainly don't hate the board. But it is Powell who has masterminded our upturn on the field, and that's why I give him so much credit.
 
Well I thought the posters on here could show me the same courtesy I have shown them and answer some of my points about the Board, AC and LL and why CP has been the best thing to happen to cafc in years then I might change my view rather than point me off to another board where they have banned me and frankly they have all about as much creativity as a lolly stick in a dog turd.
 
It's absolutely nonsensical and frankly daft to compare warnock, graham and Powell as comparators, that is about a scientific as asking for two sandwiches an egg sandwich, and chicken sandwich and asking the shop keeper which comes first? How can you compare those managers and say CP is the more passionate. You don't know them well enough and quite clearly have hometown bias. I once heard a story that George graham was crying in the arsenal dressing room when they lost a match to Tottenham.

The reason this club has failed in the last ten years is that we had an idiotic boards and some idiotic fans who treated the best manager this club has ever seen (plain old AC) like crap. Conversely, is it not true that the last two and a half years have been the most successful, since the new board came in and got rid of the failing Parky, Everitt, and co and replaced them with more amiable and less troublesome manager and staff. If you gonna look at this historically, CP would never be here but for the board, so most if the credit most go to them right? If CP buys a gem player he gets the credit right, if the board appoint a gem manager why can't they get the plaudits instead of the absolute crap that has been thrown at them recently.
 
typical said:
It's absolutely nonsensical and frankly daft to compare warnock, graham and Powell as comparators, that is about a scientific as asking for two sandwiches an egg sandwich and chicken sandwich and asking the shop keeper which comes first? How can you compare those managers and say CP is the more passionate. You don't know them well enough and quite clearly have hometown bias.

The reason this club has failed in the last ten years is that we had an idiotic boards and some idiotic fans who treated the best manager this club has ever seen (plain old AC) like crap. Conversely, is it not true that the last two and a half years have been the most successful since the new board came in and got rid of the failing Parky, Everitt, and co and replaced them with more amiable and less troublesome managers. If you gonna look at this historically, CP would never be here but for the board, so most if the credit most go to them right.
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The point behind my comparison was this: from the start, Warnock and Graham did not have the backing of the fans, and the atmosphere around the club was never good as a result. Powell had the backing of the fans from the moment he arrived thanks to his playing record at Charlton, and this support has at times been a key factor, most obviously in the Cardiff home game. Only another ex-Charlton man could have engendered the same support from the off.

Do Iain Dowie and Alan Pardew not bear some of the responsibility for our demise in the past few years? Of course, the then board has to take some of the responsibility for their appointments, but those 2 made all the rubbish signings. Powell has made really good ones.

I agree that were it not for the new board Powell wouldn't be here. In my last post I gave them credit for that. But our success ON THE FIELD (the measure by which all managers are judged) must surely be attributed mostly to Powell, who has been here for pretty much exactly the same period of time as the new board.

Simple question - do you think Chris Powell is a good manager? His record suggests he is, so if not, why not?
 
George Grahm was banned for football for a year for taking bungs and left arsenal to go to Leeds then Tottenham, he absolutely the worst manager you can compare with Powell.

What the cafc baord cleverly did was a master stroke, give the people what they want. I would have done the same thing. AC was arguably just as a gifted player as Cp, and got shafted by the same fans or at least some of them that wanted him appointed in favour of Steve Gritt. How did it end for AC in the most embarrassing and humiliating show of stupidity by our so called fans who wanted him out while he was at his peak.

The div 1 was a pub league. I think Cp did the job that he was paid to do and get us out. He did that job well. Wooppy Do. Now we are in a league that historically we are accustomed too. Is he pulling up trees- no. Did we ever look like going up last season- no. Did the play off teams and perhaps even palace have a better side than us last season-no and can I see faults in his approach-yes, do I think he has the techinical nous to take us up-regrettably no. Does he have the support of the fans-yes but not for the right reasons. Does he command respect like AC-no has players like Parker, bowyer, brown come through the cafc ranks like A C managed to do-no. Is Solly the best player we have at cafc and yet no one wanted him-yes. Can you see Cp managing 11 internationals like AC did at cafc? No. Has CP attracted the players that I thought his credentials would justify-no.

That said I have never called for his sacking I am just saying that starry eyes can make you're vision very blurred.
 
Nowhere in Alan Curbishley's book does he mention that he thought he was being shafted by the fans.

Getting out of League 1 is not easy - just ask Sheffield United. Can anyone honestly say we expected to go up as champions with 101 points? Taking a team from 13th to 1st in one season is a massive achievement no matter what league you're in.

Should we have expected to go up last season? I think the play-off teams did have better teams than we did - I hope you're not arguing we underachieved by finishing 9th. I would say it is unrealistic to expect promotion with a group of players who were in League 1 2 seasons ago.

What are the wrong reasons the fans support him for then?

Powell was chairman of the PFA. So yes, he does command respect. Not as much as Curbs did, because Powell is yet to manage in the PL. Financial limitations (note: I am not blaming the board for this, it's just the way Charlton have always been) are a bigger factor in whether or not we sign players than Powell's credentials IMO.

As for the youth players coming through: do Solly, Harriott, Pigott and Cousins not count?

I am not arguing that Powell is as good as Curbs (or Lennie Lawrence for that matter). But he deserves an awful lot of credit (more than Vol's 3 games), because he has taken us up a level in the same way Curbs took us up a level, but from a different starting point.
 
Is Harriot a Scott Parker? Or piggot a lee bowyer? Solly is a fine player but is not good enough to get in any team managed by Ac. Are you saying that it is unrealistic for a team to win div 1 and not get automaticallypromoted the next season cos it has been done and by teams that scored less that 101 points as well. If the majority of fans are supporting CP because he has cult status,then when does that cult status recede? When we are relegated, when ever we get promotion? Suppose we stick in this division for another three years, is that progress? Or a pig headed show of affection for a ordinary manager with a nice hat? You decide, I am thrilled just to have a manager that can cry when beating Carlisle.

If curbs did not leave because of the fans hostility why then does very other fan in the world say that cafc should be a lesson in being careful in what you wish for? Even Bill curbishley went on record saying how AC has had enough of being criticised by his own teams fans. And logically, it did not make the book because ac is not an idiot to go ratting on the same fans that he wanted to buy his book! Buy my book and see how you plums lost me my job, is hardly a best seller, however if you look hard enough, subtle hints are dropped.

Early betting for last season has us above Palace to go up and if memory serves above Cardiff and as well. So if the experts thought we could do better than two of the promoted sides then yes, we did underachieve.

If you look at the buys that LL made and got promoted with, it makes CP purchases and loans look extravagant. CP has done a satisfactory job, he still has a long way to go.
 
No, they're not at that level yet. Is that Powell's fault? I reckon Solly could have played in one of Curbishley's sides, but of course there's no way of knowing.

I know Norwich and Southampton both got 2 automatic promotions in a row, but they are exceptions. Most teams when gaining promotion do not expect another one immediately, and given how little money we had to spend, I think we had no right to.

The majority of CAFC fans support Powell as a manager not for his cult status, but because he has done a great job. I remember when we went on that awful run towards the end of the 2010/11 season, and there were a fair few fans then who wanted Powell to go, all sentimentality forgotten. If we do go down, then those who call for his resignation may well be justified in doing so. As it happens I don't think we will go down though.

Compare our finances with those of QPR, Blackburn etc. Staying in this division for 3 years might not look like progress, but it sure as hell wouldn't be failure.
 
So to bed.... And therein lies the instability of the football fan, without any real need for a full explanation a manager can do a great job, but the board that finds him, hires him and supports him with their own money are a bunch of no good shysters and charlatans.
 
I've given an explanation as to why he's done a great job.

I have never said the board are 'a bunch of no good shysters and charlatans'. I have already said that they deserve a lot of credit. Please don't put words in my mouth.
 
typical said:
I am totally ambivalent towards CP as a manager. However, i find this mass hysteria over him quite embarrassing and slightly condescending. After a week in the job he was knighted by some of our fans.
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Firstly Typical, the term "Sir Chris Powell" was used by a majority of supporters before he had even finished his playing career with us. The man has more than earned the right to be given that much respect by Charlton fans. As for "we all know deep inside he is pretty ordinary" i could not disagree more. That man won us League One with a squad he assembled with funds given to him. Not one of those players he signed could be classed as a really good player at the time, so he showed there he has a good eye for talent and is astute in the transfer market when given room to work with. The signing of Kermorgant, who lets be honest had his career brought to an almighty halt at Leicester, was one of the best bits of business i have ever seen by a Charlton manager.

Secondly, as far as our points tally goes, that is simply down to us not having a good enough squad and him being given absolutely no money to strengthen it. No manager in the world would get the squad we have now winning every game in this division with the players we have, so pointing any form of blame on Powelly there bemuses me.

He might not "support" CAFC in the way you or i do, but the man has had over 200 appearances for this club in good times and bad. He always worked hard for the team and was a great servant. Now as a manager so far he has got us a trophy, yes it was only League One but as we found out that division is a lot better than it gets credit for, and managed to get a League One squad to finish 9th last season in our first season back in the Championship. I would hardly class such a club legend as Chris Powell as a "ripple in the cafc ocean" and think that is more than a little disrespectful to say about someone who has stayed with us when to be honest the board have given him more than enough reason to walk away if it wasn't for his love of the club. Nobody could give a speech this heartfelt about a club they didn't adore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdk-pKfDj7c
 
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